[sjc]

Has anyone done a tractor conversion and used a power-takeoff (PTO)?

I'm looking at doing a conversion of a JD with a mower and snowblower. Is this any different than just driving the mower blades at constant speed?

sc
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[partytrain]

Ok guys... after finding this site I would like to see if maybe I could get some help on a project. I see many of you have converted the riding mowers to electric and could probably give me some insight.
I am wanting to convert a craftsman tractor with hydostatic drive to electric... but not to cut grass to use an electric train for kids to ride on. I already have a great design using a craftsman tractor but would like an electric one to use inside malls during the cold months.

From what I have read I should use a 24v forklift motor with a controller. I was just wondering the run times I would get using 4 or more batteries... and also how to "connect" the motor to the drive train since some have done it.

My thought is using the belt system already there and attach the motor using the same pulley from the gas engine if possible.....

Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!

[Jimdear2]

Originally Posted by partytrain

Ok guys... after finding this site I would like to see if maybe I could get some help on a project. I see many of you have converted the riding mowers to electric and could probably give me some insight.
I am wanting to convert a craftsman tractor with hydostatic drive to electric... but not to cut grass to use an electric train for kids to ride on. I already have a great design using a craftsman tractor but would like an electric one to use inside malls during the cold months.

From what I have read I should use a 24v forklift motor with a controller. I was just wondering the run times I would get using 4 or more batteries... and also how to "connect" the motor to the drive train since some have done it.

My thought is using the belt system already there and attach the motor using the same pulley from the gas engine if possible.....

Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!

An indoor electric partytrain, a very nice idea for kiddy rides in a mall.

Here are some thoughts. Sorry about the length.

I think a hydrostatic is going to be difficult to drive because you will have two different power controls. You will need to add motor power then add load with the hydro then add motor power then more load. With a ICE the governor does this for you. You set the throttle to an RPM and the governor controls the throttle. A manual trans or direct drive may be a better choice.

With a hydro you will need to make sure you never have the electric motor under high power when you put the hydro lever into neutral or the motor will run away and maybe blow up.

If you go with a belt drive manual you can dispense with clutch and such. Once you get the primary reduction into the trans right you will find that the torque of the motor will be sufficient.

Remember when selecting gearing that electrics make the most power at low rpm up to about midway into there RPM range where ICE the power is more to the higher end of their range.

I would select a motor with power specifications similar to the D&D ES-15A for what you want. I can pull a 5 to 6 ton load on a skid plate at about 5 mph with 48 volts and 350 amps with my pulling tractor with a similar motor. There are a good selection of purpose built motors as well as a number of Lift Truck (Hi-Lo) motors out there.

Please look at the conversion I did shown earlier in the thread. I used a 6.7 inch, 24 - 36 volt motor on 48 volts and it works very well. I stress the Cub Cadet because it is built to last and will take more load then any garden tractor out there. As a note, 95% of the sucessful pulling garden tractors are built on Cub Cadet Transaxles, no matter what Sheet Metal they have on them. Also since the tractor is a shaft drive conversion is a snap. Another nice thing is the wheel bolt pattern is the same as 5 on 41/2 same as Ford and Chrysler passenger cars.

On brakes, NO garden tractor has brakes sufficient to stop a load like you are maybe thinking about and remember an electric motor has NO engine brakeing. The best you can do is get the mechanical disc brakes discs available on some of the hydro tractors and put a good hudraulic caliper and master cylinder on them. Maybe electric trailer brakes on some of the towed wagons? You sure don't want to run one of those poor kiddies down.

Batteries, you will want BIG deep cycle batteries for a day of running around the malls. The nice thing about the train idea is you can put batteries into the towed carts.

Your train idea has me thinking about next years town parade. I can get a few of those BIG FOOT yard wagons from Harbor Freight and build farm wagon flat beds on them and make a miniture hay ride to pull with my Cub Cadet puller.

So you will need basically the same things as a car conversion . . . PLUS EXTRAS.

1. A good motor, for this application some rated at 6 - 10 HP continious, RPM range around 3600, you should run at 48 volts (that is the highest "SAFE" voltage accepted by insurance underwriters) <bet you forgot about insurance>. No lower then 36 volts for efficiency.
2. Look at external cooling for the motor or be sure the motor is rated for the loads and RPM you are looking at.
3. What ever you need to connect the choice of motor to the choice of tractor transaxle
4. A good controller with a sufficient heat sink to not go into overtemp shutdown/cutback (big loads create heat).
5. Zero to 5k ohm Pot box or some other throttle device.
6. At least 1 good high amprage contactor (two are better-safer) with pre charge for the controller
7. Suffient fusing
8. Safety interlocks everywhere. Best is a wrist strap so no one can just jump on and go.
9. Mechanical disconnects fot the motor contactor in case you train comes unhooked.
10. Lots Of Batteries, without knowing the total weight, speed and other factors it will be hard to estimate what kind of watt hours you will need.
11. Depending on your frequency of use suffecient battery charge capacity. (Unsupervised battery chargers are expensive)

I know I've forgotten things so others please chime in

[partytrain]

Wow! Thanks For the quick response! Let me explain a little more detail and maybe it may help with the info you have given.....

1) The insurance is a snap as long as it is under 6mph and has an emergency stop and of course a fire extinguisher....

2) I understand the neutral position like you talked about.... And also the brakes (very Important) ... That is why I use the Hydrodrive on the one I have now....The Hydrodrive acts as a speed control and also a braking system..It gently slows the tractor as you decrease the speed and applies the brake in neutral....I still have the normal pedal brake also but dont use it except for a parking brake.... Just need to figure out the slow down the RPM of the motor at the same time so like you said the motor doesnt over REV...

3) According to the Specs the current Gas Engine on the Train it has a 3300 RPM & a MAX Torque of 9.76 ft/lbs - it is a 20hp motor

4) As far as the Batteries- I have plenty of room in the engine compartment and feel I could fit at least 2-4 Big Tractor Batteries or 6-8 deep cycles - Or can even build a Battery Rack once the Gas Engine is removed. My other thought was a "Battery Car" made to look like a coal car that was specificly for the Batteries.

5) My biggest concern is Safety first then Runtime - most events last 4 hours - as far as a mall, it would need to last 8hrs but my average ride is only 2.5 minutes - Speed isn't too big of a problem 3-5mph is great for the train now...

6) I found what looks like a modified mower called a BlueOx but it is $10,000 Way over my budget

Thanks again for the help...and maybe we can make this thing work and have it in every parade!

[Jimdear2]

Originally Posted by partytrain

2) I understand the neutral position like you talked about.... And also the brakes (very Important) ... That is why I use the Hydrodrive on the one I have now....The Hydrodrive acts as a speed control and also a braking system..It gently slows the tractor as you decrease the speed and applies the brake in neutral....I still have the normal pedal brake also but dont use it except for a parking brake.... Just need to figure out the slow down the RPM of the motor at the same time so like you said the motor doesnt over REV...

Partytrain,
I think ou will find that a hydro is going to be very dificult to use. I think we need someone who has done or tried a tractor with a hydro trans driven by an electric motor to chime in.

My feeling is that you would need some form of electronic RPM control that would maintain the motor at a specific RPM, like the governor on a gas (ICE) engine, I.E. whatever RPM that was set by the operator, to make a hydro work with an electric motor in a heavly loaded venu. Otherwise what you would be doing is stepping on a throttle adding load with the hydro lever or pedal till the motor starts to slow down, then adding more throttle and more hydro etc.etc.etc. Constant adjustment. The electronic control could be built I suppose, but I have no idea how or what it would cost.

Do not expect any form of motor braking like you get with a ICE gas engine when using electric motors, Unless you go for regeneative braking the motor just freewheels when power is cut. Regenerative Braking is a whole different story and considerably more expensiive. Again it can be done with a sepex motor and controller, just bring money.

Originally Posted by partytrain

3) According to the Specs the current Gas Engine on the Train it has a 3300 RPM & a MAX Torque of 9.76 ft/lbs - it is a 20hp motor

If you go electric you will be pleasently supprised all of the torque is at the low end of the RPM range generally a 10 continous HP electric motor will have maximum torque in the range of 20 + ft lbs. amd it occures just where you need it for good pulling power. My pulling tractors never stall out they just go slower and slower until they loose traction. You will be pleasently supprised at the low end power.[/quote]

Originally Posted by partytrain

4) As far as the Batteries- Runtime Safety ect.

Before we get into batteries anf the other stuff, we need to know more about the train, approx. total max gross weight and what motor/controller/voltage you plan on using. I'm pretty bad at the math to figure that out but if you go to the battery forum, people there will help you. Same with the motor and controller forums.[/quote]

Originally Posted by partytrain

6) I found what looks like a modified mower called a BlueOx but it is $10,000 Way over my budget .

Are you maybe talking about the "Electric Ox" havent seen the BlueOx yet but I'll look

[gor]

mechanical trany - would be better 4 ev conversion - with hydro you stuck with speed and torque on what hydro set - if overspeed it (>3600)- hydrofluid will foam and cause cavitation;
- but ...we got what we've got (better than nothing : as they say: best one (for conversion) - free one) : )))) ; electrical part - most important, trany could be replaced later (or whole tractor - often people just giving ovey lanmower with bad engine ;


ariens makes el.mower with hydro http://www.ariens.com/products_lawn/...s/default.aspx
www.ampbyariens.com


p.s. blades speed also normally set considering 3600 rpm constant from engine, 27500-28500 feet per min. - blade tip speed; if faster -it can blow from under deck and instead of suction- just lay grass down (bad cut)


guys, can you tell any (approximate) numbers - on your mower - how much power goes to the blades (kW, amps) - how much time batteries would last with blades on/off etc)?
i know it hard to tell (all depends of terrain, conditions, how hard you push, etc - but at least some estimation, observation - your personal experience : )
thank you

[major]

Originally Posted by Jimdear2

Before we get into batteries anf the other stuff, we need to know more about the train, approx. total max gross weight and what motor/controller/voltage you plan on using.

Hey Jim and Party,

We had an e-tractor we used to pull a train. It would be 4 cars, each weighing about 1200-1500 lbs. Yes, like a 3 ton train. Trailers on pneumatic tires. Tractor used a 2 or 3 HP PM motor from an old floor sweeper. Had a 36V, 400A Curtis. Six 12V, 50 Ahr batteries in series/parallel. Darn thing even went up hill. Had a 3 spd forward w rev axle. Was belt drive. Later on changed to a chain drive. Was an old ElecTrak E8 (maybe E10).

I'd suggest you find a tractor to use without hydraulic drive. Just belt drive the motor to the transaxle. 36 volts should be fine. Longer run time needed; look at bigger batteries like for floor sweepers. 400A Curtis or maybe the 225A. Charger should not cost much. Golf cart charger or Minn Kota. Not hard to do or expensive.

Regards,

major

[aproldan]

i have done 3 tractors and one mini ride one and i will only use a mechanical tranny. the 3 tractors were used for pulling stuff and the mini is used for cutting grass.. you have more control on your speed and range.. when pulling heavy loads i would put it in 1st or 2nd gear.. when the kids just wanted to guff the back they would use 3rd-5th gear.. to me the mechanical tranny are more reliable.. and much easier to work with. and i use a controller on all my tractors.. and here may be a big shocker to most of you but i only use a 50amp controller... now my mini i use 2 motors one for the cutting deck and one for the drive.. the drive system uses a controller and the cutting deck uses an on/off switch.. works great.. here are 2 vids of my toys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvhqsWVk_Nk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jga3nXYsIA