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  #1  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:23 PM
order99 order99 is offline
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

So it's a custom lightweight Tadpole Trike with some Metro parts in the mix-cool!

If you can keep it under 500 lbs (definitely Lithium packs!) you might want to consider CVT technology to get that mix of hill-climbing-to-highway speeds you want. CVTs need to be properly tuned to get the perfect power mix-the good news is that they can be, even by a ham-fisted idiot like me. Heck, this vehicle-

http://www.rqriley.com/urba-e.html

-ran the motor at a constant speed and use an Electronically-controlled CVT in place of a Motor Controller! Too bad that model is out of service these days...

If the money ever starts flowing a bit faster for me (may as well ask for superpowers, right?) I was planning on building a two person/one person& cargo Trike of my own. Assuming the requisite financial miracle actually occurs, I was tempted to try a NuVinci hub-

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/home.asp

-as i've heard that they would be suitable for motorcycles and other light EVs. Of course if your EV ends up at under a half ton (and you're shooting for about a quarter-ton there) then an entire world of motorcycle and ATV/snowmobile transmissions opens up to you. If the budget gets tight, forget NuVinci-one visit to Craigslist and a nice 'engine blown, good for parts' Kawasaki or Honda could be yours for spare change.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:59 AM
grayballs grayballs is offline
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

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Originally Posted by order99 View Post
, I was tempted to try a NuVinci hub-

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/home.asp

-as i've heard that they would be suitable for motorcycles and other light EVs.

Having built a couple of Tadpoles, in the past, I've been admiring these hubs since I first discovered them,, the only problem is that I've never seen one for anything other than a bicycle. Nu-Vinci claims 'larger, stronger, capable of transmitting motorized power',,,, Has anyone actually seen one? The principle is pretty basic,,, more spheres, more power,,,, the ultimate transmission if one can find it.
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:50 PM
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Amberwolf Amberwolf is offline
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

Supposedly Fallbrook has a version of the hub "in development" that would be suitable for motorcycle-class power levels, but that's what they've said for years, and nothing verifiable ever came of it (they didn't even answer my questions about that one, though they did about the bicycle version, which is all they've ever released).

The version actually available is for lacing into spoked bicycle wheels, either 32 or 36 spokes, depending on which version you order (just different lacing holes drilled in it). It is only warrantied for this application--if you don't lace it into a *rear* wheel, the warranty is void (because of the way their instructions read).

If you run anything other than human drive power thru it, the warranty is void (should they in their sole determination choose to say that such use damaged it, which you have no way of objecting to).

If you don't mount it and it's accessory parts exactly as their instructions specify, the warranty is void (should they in their sole determination choose to say that such use damaged it, which you have no way of objecting to).

That's verified by my communications with them, and when I asked if they would revise this they said they would take it under consideration (which basically means no). I had wanted to use it in a design for a fully-suspended recumbent tadpole cargo trike, as part of the integrated human/electric drivetrain. It would not have been laced into a wheel, but rather part of the inline drivetrain, to help reduce in-wheel-rotating and unsprung mass (it's pretty heavy for a bike hub). Each of those things individually void it's warranty, preventing me from using it at all, as I wanted to develop these as a commercially-produced design. I can't use a major expensive part that I can't get warrantied by the manufacturer.

So it's only good for a certain class of regular bicycles, as it's use is disallowed by the very instructions they have for mounting it or it's control shifter or other parts in a number of bicycle variations, or in any power-assisted vehicle that passes it's power assist into the drivetrain that contains the NuVinci.

Unverified by me, since I won't buy something that won't have a warranty if I use it the way my needs dictate:

I've heard various real-world efficiencies for it from 85% down to 66%, and that they higher power levels put thru it the worse that is, because of the way power is transmitted within it (via special fluid between the ellipsoids and the rings).

I've also heard that it does not shift under load, that one must stop or slow your pedalling to shift depending on the direction of shifting and the actual load on it.


It looks marvelous on paper. It might even work very well. Just keep in mind I doubt it would survive motorcycle-class power loads, and that you have no warranty for it if you run it other than by human power alone, laced into the rear wheel of a bicycle, with everything that's a part of it's system mounted per their instructions.
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Old 11-07-2009, 01:59 PM
grayballs grayballs is offline
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberwolf View Post
Supposedly Fallbrook has a version of the hub "in development" that would be suitable for motorcycle-class power levels, but that's what they've said for years, and nothing verifiable ever came of it (they didn't even answer my questions about that one, though they did about the bicycle version, which is all they've ever released).




I've also heard that it does not shift under load, that one must stop or slow your pedalling to shift depending on the direction of shifting and the actual load on it.


It looks marvelous on paper. It might even work very well. Just keep in mind I doubt it would survive motorcycle-class power loads, and that you have no warranty for it if you run it other than by human power alone, laced into the rear wheel of a bicycle, with everything that's a part of it's system mounted per their instructions.

Most torroidal type transmissions will shift quite well, under load,,, I would think that stopping would make it more difficult.... Probably just a moot point, since it appears to be vapor ware. (I don't know who I stole that phrase from, but it seems most appropriate)
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

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Originally Posted by grayballs View Post
Most torroidal type transmissions will shift quite well, under load,,, I would think that stopping would make it more difficult.... Probably just a moot point, since it appears to be vapor ware. (I don't know who I stole that phrase from, but it seems most appropriate)
I didn't mean stopping completely and shifting, but rather stopping the power input to it. It is supposed to be easier to shift when the vehicle is actually stopped than other drivetrains, but still is stiff to do so, as I'd expect. (still way better than a chain drive / derailer, for shifting when stopped!).

I really really wish I could use the NuVinci....
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:22 AM
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esoneson esoneson is offline
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Default Re: type motor/clutch for chain drive

Just a suggestion, take a peek at:

http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac/


Email Mark and ask about his dual-motor automobile application.

Might be a great fit for your application.

Eric
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