[IamIan]

Originally Posted by ZX-E

To be honest I really do think it would have mattered how it was phrased. You were saying that even if the motor's shaft isn't turning there can be power dissipated by the motor in the form of thermal energy. Right? Everyone can agree on that I think .

Although I had hoped others would have seen it without been spoon feed.

But, yes that one should be obvious... but it isn't just thermal power from the flow of and conversion to and from thermal energy... there are many many type of power and many many types of energy ... many many of which are still present at an electric motor at 0 RPMs... but not in a stationary spring.

Additionally ... it is often over looked that kinetic power is not the same as mechanical power .... kinetic power could be power from any type of movement.... mechanical power ignores any movement that is perpendicular to the applied force.

A crude example... yes it is flawed but I don't know off hand a better analogy...

A bolt and a nut ... you apply a force to turn the bolt ... the movement of the bolt in the direction of that applied force of rotation counts toward that mechanical power ... but the motion of the bolt toward or away from the nut does not count for that mechanical power because it is a motion that is perpendicular to the applied force.... Yes I can hear the masses screaming already... but its true... if you don't think so go look up mechanical power... Now the best you could do is that you could do with mechanical power is change your frame of reference ... the force and movement toward or away from the bolt is induced and in that frame of reference the rotational force and movement are ignored because they are now perpendicular.

In short... invoking mechanical power ignores allot of things ... to many for my tastes... and still does not change the presence of power at 0 RPMs.

Originally Posted by ZX-E

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. Please don't bite your virtual tongue.

but it has treed out so much...

If this one rather simple concept was such a fight where am I for

Duncan and his post with by my count... 4 points I disagree with.
Major and his most recent post by my count ... 5 points I disagree with.

or any of the older multitudes of points I disagree with.

I just see an steep uphill battle ... with very very little to be gained by the effort... and a very good chance they will never see it no matter what.