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  #1  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:09 PM
petersot petersot is offline
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Default 88 Fiero EV Build

Hi,

Newbie here trying to read through all of this great information and folks' contributions. I am an MBA / IT network guy that does a little ICE maintenance work, does not know EE math, and is new to CA (relo from Pacific NW). I have a bunch of tools, but not sure they are the right ones, but will buy them if necessary. I could really use a coach / mentor to help me navigate the math, products etc (I know...who doesn't right?!@)

1988 Pontiac Fiero (4cyl) Automatic (ugh)

Initial Goals:
Commute to work (25mi) each way (office has charging station in back!)
Accelerate to 65mph (highway speeds, bumper to bumper traffic, merging etc)
2 Passengers (400lbs combined)
Location: San Jose, CA
Budget: 4-6K
Time: Before wife gets sick of nothing getting done!

Optimal goals: +$8K?
100mi distance before charge
0-60 in 5sec (please?!) ;-)
Regenerative Braking

I've been thinking about a 144v (240v??) motor (not sure which one yet, don't get volts-HP equivalency) and LiPo battery packs. I've found 72v100ah med discharge batteries that I like (working on the price). Not sure how many I need at this point (initial or optimal). Also, having worked at Boeing for a number of years, I've become a little enamored with the idea of using a 777 electric starter motor...any guesses why?? LOL (can someone talk me out of this?)

Things that I've been considering:
Dropping the automatic transmission and replacing it with ????
- Would like to have mid-engine tranny that is fast off the line but an over-drive for highway.
- May go with paddle shifters instead of clutch, wifey can't drive a clutch and has no desire to learn... (suggestions?)
Not using the Fiero but a tubular body (Fiero was $400 and barely running) but no accidents and disc brakes!

Thanks again for your thoughts, links, lessons learned etc. Anyone in the area that I can connect with and compare notes? I live in the Campbell area.

Thomas

Last edited by petersot; 02-13-2012 at 02:46 PM. Reason: minor updates
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2012, 01:14 PM
dubelt dubelt is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

> 0-60 in 5sec (please?!)


It is not possible in your budget
You should hope that you will get acceleration like running ICE
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2012, 12:58 AM
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John Metric John Metric is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersot View Post
Hi,
Optimal goals: +$8K?
100mi distance before charge
0-60 in 5sec (please?!) ;-)
Regenerative braking
Can't help you with any of that. But I did use a stock Fiero....
Here are some links to my build.

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  #4  
Old 02-16-2012, 09:54 AM
petersot petersot is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

Thanks for the reality check(s). I was trying to be a little bit humorous.

Metric, your build is very close to what I am interested in tinkering around with. I don't have 'race dreams' however, I am interested in having some get up and go to make the morning commute a little more interesting. I have charging power at work so I can keep a full charge at nearly all times.

I'm very interested in your LiPo pack configuration and your thoughts on leveraging the front end (under the hood) of the Fiero. Your use of space for the dual Warp 9s is very inspiring and I would like to incorporate that idea into my 'phased approach' to building up this EV.

Do you have any recommendations for a transmission? I'm thinking that I will be taking this out onto the highway/freeway for my commute and would like to have an overdrive capability along with a fast first & second gear. I was thinking about the Corvette C5 or Z06 6-speed transmission, but is there a cheaper easier option? My wife can't / won't drive a manual so I was thinking about leveraging their paddle shifters.

I really appreciate your leadership you've taken in this space and thanks again for your links and documentation.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:20 AM
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John Metric John Metric is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersot View Post
I'm very interested in your LiPo pack configuration and your thoughts on leveraging the front end (under the hood) of the Fiero. Your use of space for the dual Warp 9s is very inspiring and I would like to incorporate that idea into my 'phased approach' to building up this EV.

Do you have any recommendations for a transmission? I'm thinking that I will be taking this out onto the highway/freeway for my commute and would like to have an overdrive capability along with a fast first & second gear. I was thinking about the Corvette C5 or Z06 6-speed transmission, but is there a cheaper easier option? My wife can't / won't drive a manual so I was thinking about leveraging their paddle shifters.
Well the transmission tunnel approach is not really expensive but requires a lot of sheet metal bending and cutting and welding skill.
You could put a motor and TH400 transmission in the front of the car, but again you would be fabbing up a lot of custom motor mounts and really taking a sawsall to the unibody and rewelding the strength back in.
For a daily commuter I would start by scanning through EVALBUM.COM and search on Fiero. There must be a hundred in there. Look for builds that give the same performance you are looking for.

With twin Warp9's I don't think you need the gear vendors overdrive. I don't even kick mine in until about 70mph. However, with a single Warp9 or Warp11 you may consider it. You may want to consider a large Warp11 into the stock Fiero Transaxle with a lenco gear reducer flipped around to make a permanent overdrive. This would give peak power around 5000rpm, be a reasonable 300ftlbs of peak torque and be able to run all the standard transaxle transmission functions.(This is a new idea I am afraid but I think quite doable.

I would stay away from the LiPo's for daily driver. The claimed cycles on them is around 300. I am near 180 but that race driven cycles. I am afraid fi you drove every day and the cycle life truly is only 300 that you would be replacing a pack a year. I will let you know more when I pass 300 cycles if they have more due to proper balance and management.

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  #6  
Old 02-20-2012, 02:57 PM
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electric85 electric85 is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

hey there, i'm restoring/converting a fiero (a project that has taken way too long due to lack of money and time) and i'm afraid that your goals of 4-6k will not get you the performance you want. you would be looking at used forklift parts (hopefully for free or next to nothing) and used EV stuff you can find online. but if you look around you can get some good stuff for around 8k.

my suggestions are that you run a 144v system and get a 9 inch motor...i know your wife doesn't care to drive stick...but ev's are not like normal stick...you don't have to balance both pedals to keep it from stalling and there isn't much shifting anyway with an electric car. and you don't need overdrive because evs are more efficient at higher revs

and then there is the topic of batteries...since you only need 25-30 miles, lithium is affordable for your application, lead would add lots of un-wanted weight which would hurt performance and range and would only last a few years

with a 144v system...a 9 inch motor...and possibly lithium batteries...it will perform nicely
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:27 AM
petersot petersot is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

E-85

Thank you very much for your encouragement and support. So at 144V and my range, how would I calculate my AH for LiPo batteries?

Of course, I'd like the answer, but if someone could help me with the formula then I can make adjustments to my calcs later on.

For LiPo batteries, is it a linear line for distance calculations?

50AH = 10mi
100AH = 20mi
etc.

TIA
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

there are Formulas to figure all that out...and i have in the past but don't know what the formula is right now. anyone know where he can find it?

but the thing i found most helpful was real world performance reports from other EV'ers. i looked through build threads, evalbum, and battery performance threads on here too. judging by results cars were getting with different batteries and controllers...compare weight...you can find similar projects and model your build off another car...but make changes where you feel you need to.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:16 AM
drgrieve drgrieve is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

Don't use lipo, use lifep04 batteries. Much longer cycle life.

In regards to range it depends on => what speed you are driving, weight of car, aerodynamics, what tires, altitude, driver's lead foot etc etc.

Having said that two rough rules of thumb is ICE mpg * 8.5 gives you your watt hours per mile. And that a very small car is 200, medium 250 and large 300 watt hours per mile (wh/mile).

So if your was 275 wh/mile to go 30 miles you need.

250 * 30 * 1.2 (DOD) = 10 kwH

10 kWh at 144 volts is (46 batteries @ 3.2 volts each) 10000 / 147.2 = ~70 ah
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:11 PM
petersot petersot is offline
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Default Re: 88 Fiero EV Build

Ok, this is all very helpful. In the above post I noticed that there is a reference to 3.2V batteries. However, the amps were not listed. In looking around for batteries I have run across everything from 1800mA to 3.0A.

At this point, if I was able to put ~200AH of batteries in my car then I would be able to get 70-90 miles range out of it.

Any suggestion on which 3.2V batteries I should be looking at?
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