Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best? - DIY Electric Car Forums
Go Back  

DIY Electric Car Forums > EV Conversions and Builds > Electric Motors

Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2012, 02:55 PM
Elegancec Elegancec is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Elegancec is on a distinguished road
Default Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Hello,

I read many articles in this forum and in my opinion it is very good.

At first I want you to introduce to my project, I want to convert a BMW Z3 from 1998. I have seen several motors which could fit and some which are not strong enough.

The BMW has now a maximum torque of 168Nm at about 4500rpm. At 1-2000rpm it has 120Nm. I want to have this performance again after installation.
At first I thought to use a AC-50 System with curtis controller, but this system only has 110lbft this is about 150Nm at maximum. But if you read it correctly, it has only 120Nm in normal condition if the batteries are weak in voltage. So this systems seems to be too weak for this car because you can only go up to 3000rpm without weaking of the torque.

A better choice would be the Siemens 1pv5135 series with the 50kW version. This has a water cooling and has about 160Nm and I think 330Nm peak. This would fit ideally but the costs... 5900€ at hec-drives.nl
This seems to be too much.

Piktronik has a very good controller for about less than 3700€ (see data beneath). So if I use this one, I need a good motor attached to this controller.

Do you have some suggestions?

80kVA Motorregler für Fahrzeuge und Boote

Batteriespannung: 96 V bis 290 V
Nennleistung: 80 kVA
Max. Leistung: 120 kVA
Motornennstrom: 240 A
Motorspitzenstrom: 280 A
Schutzart: IP54
Kuhlung: Flüssigkeit

HAUPTMERKMALLE
Innovative technologie
Kompakte bauform
Einfache Inbetriebnahme
Geberlose Regelung
Drehmoment- oder Drehzahlregelung
Sollwertvorgabe über CAN Bus
Autotuning und Selbsttestfunktionen
Batteriemanagement
Flüssigkeitskühlung
Technische DatenBatteriespannung 96 V bis 290 V
Betriebsspannungsbereich 80 V bis 340 V
Nennleistung 80 kVA
Max. Leistung 119 kVA
Motornennstrom 240 A
Motorspitzenstrom 280 A
Schutzart IP54
Kuhlung Flüssigkeit
Bemaßung 300 x 155 x 245 mm
Gewicht (inkl. Kabeln) 13 kg

ZUBEHÖR
Kabelsatz C60D6
Pumpenkabel C40P2
GD2-12V - Anzeigegerät
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:47 PM
somanywelps somanywelps is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 432
somanywelps is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

People used 11"ers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Elegancec Elegancec is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Elegancec is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Hi,

thank you for your post.

You're right, that would be the easiest conversion, but I think in Europe it would not be accepted from everybody.
In my opinon I have to use the energy from Regenerative Braking, because of the little capacity from the battery system.
So an Sepex or better AC system would ideally fit. The components I have suggested seem for me to be the best for this project.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2012, 03:40 PM
somanywelps somanywelps is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 432
somanywelps is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Sepex and AC are limited on the options, specifically power.

How many HP and nm did you want?

I don't think you're going to want to pay that much for regen.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:55 PM
zsnemeth zsnemeth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 100
zsnemeth is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elegancec View Post
Hello,

A better choice would be the Siemens 1pv5135 series with the 50kW version. This has a water cooling and has about 160Nm and I think 330Nm peak. This would fit ideally but the costs... 5900€ at hec-drives.nl
This seems to be too much.

Piktronik has a very good controller for about less than 3700€
5900+3700= 9600 Euro

11" Kostov Alpha 2200 Euro

Soliton1 + EMC kit 3000 Euro

So, You'll have 4400 Euro battery or beer money....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:45 AM
steven4601 steven4601 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: the Netherlands, Overijssel
Posts: 508
steven4601 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to steven4601
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

A Z3, brilliant choice if I may say so!

If im not mistaken, an isolation test is carried out during type approval. If you use a virgen dc motor (no dust etc) you'll probably pass the isolation tests. However, if you use a motor that has some miles on it, it is likely to fail the isolation tests. (Isolation of 200 Ohm per Volt is required. 2mA leakage maximum). The 100-ohm per volt requirement usese battery voltage. Example: a 220 Volt pack would require 220kOhm isolation or better between the traction pack and chassis.

If the dc / sepex motor is new, it will pass the isolation test. Otherwise it will be very doubtfull.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-25-2012, 12:16 PM
somanywelps somanywelps is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 432
somanywelps is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsnemeth View Post
5900+3700= 9600 Euro

11" Kostov Alpha 2200 Euro

Soliton1 + EMC kit 3000 Euro

So, You'll have 4400 Euro battery or beer money....
The alpha would be a good choice due to the forced air cooling:

295A 500A
100nm 194nm
0.4585365853658537x + -35.26829268292684

312ft*lb per 1 @1000A
624ft*lb per 2 @1000A
177ft*lb per 1 @600A
354ft*lb per 2 @600A
143ft*lb per 1 @500A
286ft*lb per 2 @500A
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:55 AM
Elegancec Elegancec is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Elegancec is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Hello, thank you for your answers!

I think in comparison to the price and performance, there is no way not to use a DC system. So I have a question to the kostov 11 Alpha motor.
You can read on the controller homepages from netgain or zilla 1000A or also 2000A. So this is the maximum amperage rating what the controller can deliver.
If I look at the chart from the motor, round about 680A ->280Nm. So I think this is what somanywelps also stated in his previous mail.
So at 1000A -> 312ft*lb = 422Nm. I think the BMW would fly with this So my next step is to clearify how much torque the gearbox can handle.

Attached the interpolation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kostov 11 Alpha interpoliert.jpg (96.3 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Elegancec; 05-27-2012 at 01:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:16 AM
somanywelps somanywelps is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 432
somanywelps is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elegancec View Post
Hello, thank you for your answers!

I think in comparison to the price and performance, there is no way not to use a DC system. So I have a question to the kostov 11 Alpha motor.
You can read on the controller homepages from netgain or zilla 1000A or also 2000A. So this is the maximum amperage rating what the controller can deliver.
If I look at the chart from the motor, round about 680A ->280Nm. So I think this is what somanywelps also stated in his previous mail.
So at 1000A -> 312ft*lb = 422Nm. I think the BMW would fly with this So my next step is to clearify how much torque the gearbox can handle.

Attached the interpolation.
Yes it would fly, I'm working on planning an E46 conversion.

The gearbox torque rating is a potential problem. Valerun has been running his E46 conversions with the stock, 300nm rated gearboxes at 484 nm out of a Warp 11HV at 1000A from a Soliton 1 without any issues except the clutch (he stated the stock ones slipped, not sure what he replaced it with).

BMW transmissions have a reputation for being strong, and even BMW runs them over "spec" (see E39 M5 with an S6S-420G transmission).

A cursory look at realoem shows the 2.5 and up Z3's as having a 320nm rated gearbox, and you'd be peaking at 427nm (K11A @1000A with Soliton 1), so you'll be fine (I think).

You may need to replace the clutch with something that can hold on against that much instant torque.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-27-2012, 07:56 PM
Elegancec Elegancec is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 73
Elegancec is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Conversion BMW Z3 which motor fits best?

Question about Solution 1 controller:

The website states 9-340V DC output.
The Kostov 11 Alpha wants 240V. So in my opinion the controller makes a pwm signal of it. So the battery system has to provide 250V, is this correct? So its not possible to use an 100V battery pack as an example?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Share or Bookmark this

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
Support DIY Electric Car
Sponsors

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Ad Management by RedTyger