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  #1  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:15 AM
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Default [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

There was an incident recently where a writer reviewing an electric car was
unplugged. A rant ensued. It got me thinking. Couldn't there be a better
solution. Wouldn't it be possible to daisy chain charging? A simple adapter
could be made. Yes charging might be slower but it would allow multiple
vehicles(side by side of course) to charge simultaneously . Lawrence
Rhodes....

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  #2  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

No, this wouldn't work with J1772. Each car individually needs to turn the EVSE's contactor on and off individually. If they are daisy chained, then no single car would control it, and one plug would end up being "hot" when unplugged if another car is still charging.

corbin

[quote] Lawrence Rhodes <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> There was an incident recently where a writer reviewing an electric car was
> unplugged. A rant ensued. It got me thinking. Couldn't there be a better
> solution. Wouldn't it be possible to daisy chain charging? A simple adapter
> could be made. Yes charging might be slower but it would allow multiple
> vehicles(side by side of course) to charge simultaneously . Lawrence
> Rhodes....
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

One could make an ESVE with several cables. The device could operate
first-come-first-serve. That is, the first one who plugs in starts charing
right away. If a second person plugs in with a 2nd cable while the 1st is
still charging, the ESVE acknowldeges the connection but doesn't start
charging until the first has completed. And so on.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: 20 June, 2012 10:20 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

No, this wouldn't work with J1772. Each car individually needs to turn the
EVSE's contactor on and off individually. If they are daisy chained, then no
single car would control it, and one plug would end up being "hot" when
unplugged if another car is still charging.

corbin

On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Lawrence Rhodes <xxx@xxx.xxx>
[quote]wrote:

> There was an incident recently where a writer reviewing an electric
> car was unplugged. A rant ensued. It got me thinking. Couldn't
> there be a better solution. Wouldn't it be possible to daisy chain
> charging? A simple adapter could be made. Yes charging might be slower
but it would allow multiple
> vehicles(side by side of course) to charge simultaneously . Lawrence
> Rhodes....
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

Hi Peri,
That's an interesting idea, but each individual plug would have to be on its own contactor/breaker in order to isolate each plug. And each one would have to have its own circuit to do the pilot signal. So, basically, it would cost the same to install more charging stations. The thing it would help with is if the underlying wire to the station isn't capable of carrying enough amps. If that's the case, then it could more easily be implemented in software in the EVSE; i.e.: install 3 stations, and make it so only one could charge at any given time.

corbin

[quote] Peri Hartman <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> One could make an ESVE with several cables. The device could operate
> first-come-first-serve. That is, the first one who plugs in starts charing
> right away. If a second person plugs in with a 2nd cable while the 1st is
> still charging, the ESVE acknowldeges the connection but doesn't start
> charging until the first has completed. And so on.
>
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
> Of corbin dunn
> Sent: 20 June, 2012 10:20 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol
>
> No, this wouldn't work with J1772. Each car individually needs to turn the
> EVSE's contactor on and off individually. If they are daisy chained, then no
> single car would control it, and one plug would end up being "hot" when
> unplugged if another car is still charging.
>
> corbin
>
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Lawrence Rhodes <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> wrote:
>
>> There was an incident recently where a writer reviewing an electric
>> car was unplugged. A rant ensued. It got me thinking. Couldn't
>> there be a better solution. Wouldn't it be possible to daisy chain
>> charging? A simple adapter could be made. Yes charging might be slower
> but it would allow multiple
>> vehicles(side by side of course) to charge simultaneously . Lawrence
>> Rhodes....
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
>
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

This works for me. Lawrence Rhodes.


Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Message-ID: <xxx@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

One could make an ESVE with several cables. The device could operate
first-come-first-serve. That is, the first one who plugs in starts charing
right away. If a second person plugs in with a 2nd cable while the 1st is
still charging, the ESVE acknowldeges the connection but doesn't start
charging until the first has completed. And so on.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
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  #6  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol


> One could make an ESVE with several cables. The device could operate
> first-come-first-serve. That is, the first one who plugs in starts charing
> right away. If a second person plugs in with a 2nd cable while the 1st is
> still charging, the ESVE acknowldeges the connection but doesn't start
> charging until the first has completed. And so on.


Good luck!!!

First a proposal would have to be made to the SAE J1772 Committee.
Then, if accepted, they would take a year to iron out the details and approve it.
Then the manufactures of the various EVSE's would say, nope we can't do it...the cost would be
outrageous...

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com/TucsonEV-SE.html

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  #7  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

Well, frankly, I agree with you. My idea could be done, but it's probably
simpler just to install 2 or 3 ESVEs. Software could be used to limit only
one to operate at a time, but even that's probably hard to justify. Darned
thing is the bulk of the cost of these things are the components that can't
be shared - the contactors, the cables, the connectors. Oh, well.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: 20 June, 2012 11:43 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

Hi Peri,
That's an interesting idea, but each individual plug would have to be on its
own contactor/breaker in order to isolate each plug. And each one would have
to have its own circuit to do the pilot signal. So, basically, it would cost
the same to install more charging stations. The thing it would help with is
if the underlying wire to the station isn't capable of carrying enough amps.
If that's the case, then it could more easily be implemented in software in
the EVSE; i.e.: install 3 stations, and make it so only one could charge at
any given time.

corbin

[quote] Peri Hartman <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> One could make an ESVE with several cables. The device could operate
> first-come-first-serve. That is, the first one who plugs in starts
> charing right away. If a second person plugs in with a 2nd cable
> while the 1st is still charging, the ESVE acknowldeges the connection
> but doesn't start charging until the first has completed. And so on.
>
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of corbin dunn
> Sent: 20 June, 2012 10:20 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol
>
> No, this wouldn't work with J1772. Each car individually needs to turn
> the EVSE's contactor on and off individually. If they are daisy
> chained, then no single car would control it, and one plug would end
> up being "hot" when unplugged if another car is still charging.
>
> corbin
>
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Lawrence Rhodes
> <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> wrote:
>
>> There was an incident recently where a writer reviewing an electric
>> car was unplugged. A rant ensued. It got me thinking. Couldn't
>> there be a better solution. Wouldn't it be possible to daisy chain
>> charging? A simple adapter could be made. Yes charging might be
>> slower
> but it would allow multiple
>> vehicles(side by side of course) to charge simultaneously . Lawrence
>> Rhodes....
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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> |
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2012, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

[quote] Robert Johnston <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Looking at the J1772 connector, there is a hole in the side, around
> half-way down the connector. Would it not be a simple matter to have a
> solenoid engage a pin with that hole while the vehicle is charging. Then
> when the vehicle determines it is charged (or the charger does, and
> drops voltage to 0), the solenoid disengages and the connector is free
> to be removed. The connector can be removed early by the person who
> initiated the charge choosing to do so using his identification,
> whatever that may be, to shut off the charge, which will (as mentioned
> above) then withdraw the solenoid, or for emergency services/the owner,
> who can use a key (or other secured device) to shut down the EVSE.


IIRC, there is a requirement that the plug disengage from the car undamaged
if yanked. This is so an earthquake, tow truck, collision, etc. doesn't
cause an unsafe condition. I believe any means of locking the plug into
the car is verboten. Experts, do I have this right?

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
http://www.evalbum.com/274
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

[quote] Chris Tromley wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Robert Johnston <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> IIRC, there is a requirement that the plug disengage from the car undamaged
> if yanked. This is so an earthquake, tow truck, collision, etc. doesn't
> cause an unsafe condition. I believe any means of locking the plug into
> the car is verboten. Experts, do I have this right?

I believe the Nissan provided portable Panasonic EVSE has a place for
a small pad lock. We have used it on occassion. I believe it is to
make stealing the EVSE a bit more difficult; it can still be easily
unplugged from the wall.

I haven't looked at other "nozzles" to see if they can be locked.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 93 days 14 hours 00 minutes

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  #10  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol

Nope... There is no requirement to disengage from a car... unless you push down on the button in the
handle which releases the latch.

The latch is there to keep it connected, but if you pull hard on it and force the latch open, that's
another story.

Some of the J1772 Plugs have a Hard Button with a hole in it that is supposedly put there so the
owner can put a lock thru it, thereby 'locking' the J1772 Plug in position. But a HARD jank - the
plug comes out...

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] electric car charging station protocol


> [quote] Robert Johnston <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Looking at the J1772 connector, there is a hole in the side, around
>> half-way down the connector. Would it not be a simple matter to have a
>> solenoid engage a pin with that hole while the vehicle is charging. Then
>> when the vehicle determines it is charged (or the charger does, and
>> drops voltage to 0), the solenoid disengages and the connector is free
>> to be removed. The connector can be removed early by the person who
>> initiated the charge choosing to do so using his identification,
>> whatever that may be, to shut off the charge, which will (as mentioned
>> above) then withdraw the solenoid, or for emergency services/the owner,
>> who can use a key (or other secured device) to shut down the EVSE.
>
>
> IIRC, there is a requirement that the plug disengage from the car undamaged
> if yanked. This is so an earthquake, tow truck, collision, etc. doesn't
> cause an unsafe condition. I believe any means of locking the plug into
> the car is verboten. Experts, do I have this right?
>
> Chris
> LeSled is for sale!
> http://www.evalbum.com/274
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>

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