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  #11  
Old 06-12-2010, 08:35 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

How does it decide when to shift? If it tries to cruise at low RPMs
like a gas car would, the motor will be running at higher current,
causing more heat and lower efficiency.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Electric Blue auto convertions
[quote]<xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Our automatic trans will be just like a regular auto trans
> in any car, It will UP shift andDOWN shift like its suppose
> to, It will have a torque converter, static curb idle to
> charge the system, NO OUT SIDE pump. NO weird set up, just a
> simple trans that works . Complexity is the mother of all
> screw ups .
> ...

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  #12  
Old 06-12-2010, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

A automatic transmission can be set up for two modes of operation, either
by rpm and/or torque. My TH-400 is very easy to set up, unlike the newer
electronic control transmissions which some use a internal computer inside
the transmission which you can re-program with a after market programmer.

My TH-400 transmission modulator can be adjusted for street performance
which I have in my classic 1975 Chevelle. I can adjust the rpm setting for
each shift point just by turning a screw on the external modulator.

If you accelerate very lightly, you can get the transmission to shift to the
final gear or Drive at 5 mph. If you do a very heavy acceleration, then the
torque which is control by the transmission valve body, allows the rpm to
increase to the set point you adjusted to or program to.

I have my transmission set up in my EV like it done for race cars by
www.tci.com. The rpm is set in each gear for the maximum rating of the
motor, which for my GE=11 or WarP-11 is 5000 rpm. I can either select this
maximum rpm mode by selecting two gear shift points or can select a third
gear shift point that allows a lower rpm which is also control by the torque
mode when I roller coast some long hills.

My EV weighs in at 7000 lbs and I can haul cargo which at times will top
8200 lbs. I cannot use the standard gear ratios as in some lighter EV that
do not haul nothing. All my driving is city driving where I can climb hills
at 25 mph at 200 motor ampere at 70 battery ampere and on level grades at 25
mph it is 125 motor ampere at 40 battery ampere.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] auto trans


How does it decide when to shift? If it tries to cruise at low RPMs
like a gas car would, the motor will be running at higher current,
causing more heat and lower efficiency.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Electric Blue auto convertions
[quote]<xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Our automatic trans will be just like a regular auto trans
> in any car, It will UP shift and DOWN shift like its suppose
> to, It will have a torque converter, static curb idle to
> charge the system, NO OUT SIDE pump. NO weird set up, just a
> simple trans that works . Complexity is the mother of all
> screw ups .
> ...

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| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:35 AM
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Default [EVDL] auto trans

So far I have found 7 different types of auto trans that I have tested. setting them up as they were run by a gas engine. they all work as they should, no off the trans Hyd pumps, they all used torque converters. shift linkage is put in "D" and you drive away ,the trans shifts "up" by it self, as it should. and down shifts as you come to a stop..as it should. I set the curb idle at 700 RPMs and thats that . I cant see why people have to try and re-invent the wheel when things out of the box work just fine,,just some thinking on how to set it up is all it takes ...but thats just me . I dont care or worry about gear ratios, or killowatts, or dark matter, you build it, drive it, have fun with it . every thing else is BS
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  #14  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:25 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

Back in 75, my first EV was set up with a standard GM 350 automatic
transmission. It had the standard vacuum modulator, governor, torque
converter and idle it 600 rpm.

It worn out the clutch pack in with 1000 miles. The problem was that the
vacuum pump did not have a control system like some diesel vehicles have
that vary the vacuum to the vacuum modulator. Normally when you press down
on the accelerator of a engine car, the vacuum drops which sends a low
vacuum to the vacuum modulator which increases the transmission oil pressure
to about 300 psi.

When the vacuum increases, the oil pressure drops to the normal 180 psi. I
install a accelerator vacuum modulator on the accelerator linkage like they
use on diesel engines. This work good, but I did not like the shift points.
It did not shift out of 1st gear until the EV reach 25 mph.

According to my master mechanic, some transmission are control by rpm and
some are control by torque or both.

I therefore now is using a GM TH-400 with a HD torque converter design for a
heavy vehicles that has a manual valve body and does not need any vacuum
modulator and governor.

A friend of my has a new Corvette with a electronic transmission that as a
wild first gear ratio of 4.01:1. There is a switch that can change it from
automatic to manual and can lock up the torque converter.

How do you set up your automatic transmissions that is vacuum modulator
control?

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Electric Blue auto convertions" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "ev" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: [EVDL] auto trans


> So far I have found 7 different types of auto trans that I have tested.
> setting them up as they were run by a gas engine. they all work as they
> should, no off the trans Hyd pumps, they all used torque converters. shift
> linkage is put in "D" and you drive away ,the trans shifts "up" by it
> self, as it should. and down shifts as you come to a stop..as it should. I
> set the curb idle at 700 RPMs and thats that . I cant see why people have
> to try and re-invent the wheel when things out of the box work just
> fine,,just some thinking on how to set it up is all it takes ...but thats
> just me . I dont care or worry about gear ratios, or killowatts, or dark
> matter, you build it, drive it, have fun with it . every thing else is BS
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110812/03b566f8/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

[quote]On 12 Aug 2011 at 12:27, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:

> I set the curb
> idle at 700 RPMs and thats that .

With all due respect for your years of experience, I think this is not an
ideal solution, though I admit it's a tough problem.

On the plus side, it gives the EV a more familiar feel for the average guy.
It does away with jerking as the clutches engage at breakaway, or the need
for an external pump.

The problem is that it throws away one of the EV's big advantages - that it
doesn't need to waste energy idling in traffic. It also gives up what I
think is a small but nice advantage of an EV - that (with a well matched
motor and controller) you can almost move the vehicle by millimeters. It
doesn't lunge forward when you take your foot off the brake, as an ICEV with
a slushbox does.

Maybe idling the motor isn't a big range loss in the summer when you're
running the aircon anyway. But in the winter, there's no aircon to run
(though you could argue that you still need PS). You're wasting battery
energy, and that's not so good when it's cold and range is lower to begin
with.

Bottom line is that a normal factory slushbox is made for use with an ICE.
It's really not well suited for mating with a motor. A conversion built
with one will always be something of a hack job. You can make it work
better with an external pump, but it's still the wrong tool for the job.

I know it's getting tougher and tougher to find ICEVs to convert that have
manual transmissions. But there has to be a better way than hacking up an
automatic trans to work tolerably well - and just like an ICE's. I wish I
knew what to do other than go for a (pricey) custom trans, or direct drive -
also more expensive because you need a stouter controller and motor.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/

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Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .

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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:37 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

One thing about driving a manual transmission from 1955 to 2008 is that my
left leg is bigger. I told my doctor it hurts when I lift it. The doctor
said do not lift it and I should even out the legs.

So I remove the clutch and put a stronger spring on the accelerator pedal.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "EVDL Administrator" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] auto trans


[quote]> On 12 Aug 2011 at 12:27, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
>
> > I set the curb
> > idle at 700 RPMs and thats that .
>
> With all due respect for your years of experience, I think this is not an
> ideal solution, though I admit it's a tough problem.
>
> On the plus side, it gives the EV a more familiar feel for the average
> guy.
> It does away with jerking as the clutches engage at breakaway, or the need
> for an external pump.
>
> The problem is that it throws away one of the EV's big advantages - that
> it
> doesn't need to waste energy idling in traffic. It also gives up what I
> think is a small but nice advantage of an EV - that (with a well matched
> motor and controller) you can almost move the vehicle by millimeters. It
> doesn't lunge forward when you take your foot off the brake, as an ICEV
> with
> a slushbox does.
>
> Maybe idling the motor isn't a big range loss in the summer when you're
> running the aircon anyway. But in the winter, there's no aircon to run
> (though you could argue that you still need PS). You're wasting battery
> energy, and that's not so good when it's cold and range is lower to begin
> with.
>
> Bottom line is that a normal factory slushbox is made for use with an ICE.
> It's really not well suited for mating with a motor. A conversion built
> with one will always be something of a hack job. You can make it work
> better with an external pump, but it's still the wrong tool for the job.
>
> I know it's getting tougher and tougher to find ICEVs to convert that have
> manual transmissions. But there has to be a better way than hacking up an
> automatic trans to work tolerably well - and just like an ICE's. I wish I
> knew what to do other than go for a (pricey) custom trans, or direct
> drive -
> also more expensive because you need a stouter controller and motor.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:25 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] auto trans

Roland,
So you do have a sense of humor!
Thanks for that insight!
Keep up the good work Roland, and I always appreciate your experience and
wisdom.


----- Original Message ----
From: Roland Wiench <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Fri, August 12, 2011 7:28:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] auto trans

One thing about driving a manual transmission from 1955 to 2008 is that my
left leg is bigger. I told my doctor it hurts when I lift it. The doctor
said do not lift it and I should even out the legs.

So I remove the clutch and put a stronger spring on the accelerator pedal.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "EVDL Administrator" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] auto trans


[quote]> On 12 Aug 2011 at 12:27, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
>
> > I set the curb
> > idle at 700 RPMs and thats that .
>
> With all due respect for your years of experience, I think this is not an
> ideal solution, though I admit it's a tough problem.
>
> On the plus side, it gives the EV a more familiar feel for the average
> guy.
> It does away with jerking as the clutches engage at breakaway, or the need
> for an external pump.
>
> The problem is that it throws away one of the EV's big advantages - that
> it
> doesn't need to waste energy idling in traffic. It also gives up what I
> think is a small but nice advantage of an EV - that (with a well matched
> motor and controller) you can almost move the vehicle by millimeters. It
> doesn't lunge forward when you take your foot off the brake, as an ICEV
> with
> a slushbox does.
>
> Maybe idling the motor isn't a big range loss in the summer when you're
> running the aircon anyway. But in the winter, there's no aircon to run
> (though you could argue that you still need PS). You're wasting battery
> energy, and that's not so good when it's cold and range is lower to begin
> with.
>
> Bottom line is that a normal factory slushbox is made for use with an ICE.
> It's really not well suited for mating with a motor. A conversion built
> with one will always be something of a hack job. You can make it work
> better with an external pump, but it's still the wrong tool for the job.
>
> I know it's getting tougher and tougher to find ICEVs to convert that have
> manual transmissions. But there has to be a better way than hacking up an
> automatic trans to work tolerably well - and just like an ICE's. I wish I
> knew what to do other than go for a (pricey) custom trans, or direct
> drive -
> also more expensive because you need a stouter controller and motor.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:47 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default [EVDL] auto trans

Its not a big thing to make an auto trans work in a EV, correct spacing and depth of the adapter plate and coupler is very important, but after that its a good choice. Im lazy and dont like to shift.
If a custmer comes to my shop and wants on ..OK if he dosn't OK also, He has the check book . a number of the newer cars/trucks that had a computer shift trans is replaced with a non-computer trans. no vac to worry about, no electronics to worry about. plug & play. there a number of trans that dont even use vacuum to shift. no going out to buy a special shift kit. bla bla bla.. They down shift good and upshift good, on units that use a TV cable I use a bell crank that I make to the speed pot, 15 mins or so, this way you can adjust its point of shift, and it works with speed pot travel . Naturally I rebuild the trans when I get it, or just buy a re-built unit. If the converter has a lock up. I install a pressure switch on a test port 12 volts input and at cretin pressure points the converter locks up, when your coming down on shift points the converter un-locks . everything is like it was when the car was built or acts like it is suppose to . With the evnetics controller you !
set your curb idle and thats that , with a curtis or net gain controller you have to input a curb idle with the speed pot travel, and on the road the RPMs are as when it had a gas engine, or even lower.

Im not worried about squeezing the most efficient battery energy savings out of it, just make it go, and go good . People want the car back fast, so taking months to make 1 part work is non-productive ..its all about in & out ..its all about the attitude of the customer and the thickness of his check book
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
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