[CrazyAl]

Originally Posted by evnz

As far as cost goes if the petrol motor dies you get a replacement motor or car with a ev you keep the motor etc and get a new body

Well said. Also, an off the shelf Electric Motor is not specific to a body.

[John]

Originally Posted by CrazyAl

Well said. Also, an off the shelf Electric Motor is not specific to a body.

So what determines the economic life of an ICE car is the durability of the mechanicals and a good proxy for that is how many kilometers it has traveled and what determines the economic life of an EV will be the durability of the vehicle body with the possibility of reincarnation into subsequent bodies. What will kill the body of a vehicle besides accidents, corrosion, and wear is fashion. A vehicle body could be built to be extremely durable but as it becomes old fashioned and doesn’t have the latest widgets it is depreciated in value. Just as electronics devices are depreciated in value and eventually discarded while still perfectly functional though cars are more utilitarian than electronics. When battery replacement time comes around would a person put their new $10k battery in their old $1500 vehicle with its worn upholstery and outdated features or would they opt for something more up to date? Will batteries determine the economic life of an EV? Is it reasonable for the batteries to compose 90% or more of the value of an old vehicle? I think the industry will try and make the batteries proprietary so that when the batteries die so will the entire vehicle. This way obsolescence is built in otherwise cars could last a very long time and not everyone is a slave to fashion. Remaining life in the batteries becomes very important to determining remaining value. The industry will need a very robust measure to demonstrate remaining battery life expectancy in EV’s.

[albo2]

probably slightly off topic but designed and perceived obsolescence is something that needs to be stopped if we are going to move into sustainability, I think the car industry is in for a big shake up when people start buying and driving the Tesla model S this car is all aluminum, If I could afford I wouldn't mind driving that for the rest of my days

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by albo2

probably slightly off topic but designed and perceived obsolescence is something that needs to be stopped if we are going to move into sustainability, I think the car industry is in for a big shake up when people start buying and driving the Tesla model S this car is all aluminum, If I could afford I wouldn't mind driving that for the rest of my days

Cars today are a ton better than they used to be - BUT - I don't think that process is finished
In 10 years I hope that self drive cars will be available - and in 20 years they will be in my price bracket

Electric - self drive car - that could be a forever car

[Quasar]

Jeez, if I lived in Southland, the heating bills would preclude me from owning a car!
(-

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Jeez, if I lived in Southland, the heating bills would preclude me from owning a car!
(-

I kind of agree and not -
This is the warmest country (in winter) that I have ever lived in

Much warmer than England, Scotland or Mid-West USA (Indiana)

WITH THE COLDEST HOUSES!!!

We are 20 years behind the times - people live in Canada and Germany in houses that don't need any heating!

Spend just a few more dollars on insulation and decent double glazing
(NOT ALUMINIUM)
And you can have a warm house on a very small heating bill,

When I was in Christchurch I had a house built - double the standard insulation, underfloor heating, solar heating panels, UPVC windows

Lovely - then I had to move - did the extra comfort make it sell easily?

What do you think?

[Quasar]

Yes, you are quite right. The houses in this country seem to have been built for a climate of at least 15 deg further North!
I live in Tauranga which probably has the mildest climate of anywhere in the whole country, but it can still get damn cold in the winter and pretty warm in the summer. One of the things I looked for in buying this house was insulation and this one has insulated walls, ceilings and floors. The architect paid a lot of attention to taking advantage of the natural heating and cooling aspects with the result that we can heat and cool the place quite efficiently.
I have lived in England and Canada, so I was much more aware of how a house should be built than is the average New Zealander.

[John]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I kind of agree and not -
This is the warmest country (in winter) that I have ever lived in

Much warmer than England, Scotland or Mid-West USA (Indiana)

WITH THE COLDEST HOUSES!!!

We are 20 years behind the times - people live in Canada and Germany in houses that don't need any heating!

Spend just a few more dollars on insulation and decent double glazing
(NOT ALUMINIUM)
And you can have a warm house on a very small heating bill,

Add a little pasive solar design and thermal mass and reduce the heating bill further. You can use aluminium as long as it has a thermal break.

Originally Posted by Duncan

When I was in Christchurch I had a house built - double the standard insulation, underfloor heating, solar heating panels, UPVC windows

Lovely - then I had to move - did the extra comfort make it sell easily?

What do you think?

When it is buried in the walls people don't see it. Little value is attached to it. This is why the government needs to mandate better minimum standards. Also the Homestar rating for houses was an attempt to make it more visible to prospective home owners. Getting a certified Homestar rating might be a way of realizing some gain from selling on a super insulated house. Getting an R value over 3.0 for the walls would probably require thicker walls which would add significant cost to a new home. Often the people who suffer aren't the ones profiting from the houses. A lot of houses are built by development companies and by property speculators and are often bought as investments and tenanted. Who in that housing development and use chain cares about anything other than profit besides the tenants? So they are built for minimum upfront cost with little regard for running costs. That is someone else’s problem. Even if it only cost an extra $100 to install better insulation they wouldn’t do it.

[Duncan]

You can use aluminium as long as it has a thermal break.

Only aluminium with a thermal break is even more expensive than UPVC!
And still does not have the wind proof and tilt n turn features
UPVC usually meets the European standards - howling gale outside - no draft inside

Tilt n turn
Each window can open from the bottom a small amount for ventilation
or open like a door from the side
It makes every window a fire escape