[EVfun]

Let me be blunt...

If it is a choice between a Kelly controller or a Soliton controller there is no contest. Soliton is the clear winner on reliability, features, support, and power. Kelly is not even in second place. I can think of a number of controllers I'd choose before a Kelly controller.

[winzeracer]

Originally Posted by EVfun

Let me be blunt...

If it is a choice between a Kelly controller or a Soliton controller there is no contest. Soliton is the clear winner on reliability, features, support, and power. Kelly is not even in second place. I can think of a number of controllers I'd choose before a Kelly controller.

Yes but nothing else has regen for PM brushed. I clearly stated that I like the Soliton much much better. I just would like to have a controller that does not exist. I really want a Soliton with regen Maybe Teseract and make that happen.

Thanks for all the other input.
Onegreen: First off thanks for the great blog and info that you give away. Keep it coming. I do like the SyncroMotive, but since Steve(Jozzer) has tested Agni's with the Soliton that is what I will end up going with.

Steve: Thanks for the extra info on the motor, and your 2 pennies were pretty much what I was looking for, like I said i really wish there was a better matched, better quality regen controller.

Frodus: Ya just one motor for now J/k this thing should not need any more power.

I am really excited to see this motor will post pics in my build thread when it gets here. Here is the like for my thread

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ead-75205.html

[dougingraham]

Originally Posted by winzeracer

Yes but nothing else has regen for PM brushed. I clearly stated that I like the Soliton much much better. I just would like to have a controller that does not exist. I really want a Soliton with regen Maybe Teseract and make that happen.

It isn't a good idea to do regen on a PM brushed motor. The timing is all wrong and you will cause erosion to the brushes and damage to the edges of the comm segments. With separate excitation on an interpoled field winding you can do regen and not ruin the motor but that isn't a PM motor. Do you want regen? From everything I have read it really doesn't gain you enough to be worth the cost at this time. When the OEM's are making cars in the hundreds of thousands and buying motors in the millions we will see the prices go well below $1000 and probably around $1000 for motor and controller combo. But that wont happen for a while.

For you application get a Soliton Jr. It has all the bells and whistles and if looks count it is bling for your EV in addition to being functional.

[winzeracer]

Originally Posted by dougingraham

It isn't a good idea to do regen on a PM brushed motor. The timing is all wrong and you will cause erosion to the brushes and damage to the edges of the comm segments. With separate excitation on an interpoled field winding you can do regen and not ruin the motor but that isn't a PM motor. Do you want regen? From everything I have read it really doesn't gain you enough to be worth the cost at this time. When the OEM's are making cars in the hundreds of thousands and buying motors in the millions we will see the prices go well below $1000 and probably around $1000 for motor and controller combo. But that wont happen for a while.

For you application get a Soliton Jr. It has all the bells and whistles and if looks count it is bling for your EV in addition to being functional.

I really wanted the "engine brake" for late corner braking, no one had explained that though thanks. I will be going with the Soliton, she will be displayed with pride bling bling.

[Tesseract]

I'll chime in now that the OP has made his decision...

Originally Posted by dougingraham

It isn't a good idea to do regen on a PM brushed motor. The timing is all wrong and you will cause erosion to the brushes and damage to the edges of the comm segments....

Yes, this is exactly right. Another issue as mentioned to me via email from a Formula Student (?) team is that the PM motor would overheat if regen braking was used because it raised the average power handled by the motor.

I should note for completeness that this caveat applies to any motor that can do regen braking, not just SepEx or PM DC motors. AC induction and BLDC can both overheat from regen braking, with the latter at additional risk of demagnetization.

[Jozzer]

The 111 is not a larger motor, just more efficient under heavy loadings (bigger magnets, larger airgap and wound for higher voltage but with the same cross sectional area of copper)..
100v max, so you'd want three in series to get the best of a Soliton Jnr.

The Agni's will handle regen well enough with moderately advanced timing (under 200A motorside @ around 1mm of advance), but when fully advanced for race use you will experience arcing at high currents OR high rpm..

Parrallel PM motors CAN work as long as both motors are carefully matched. There have been far more parallel Agni racing than series - due to the lack of decent 200v controllers. Timing must be set very carefully, and checked at all power levels. Data from the qualifying lap of TT showed 2 motors pulling within 5% of equal amps all through the lap.

Motors in series do carry one nasty risk - if the coupling device (chain or shaft, or even the keyway) lets go then one motor can immediatly spin past safe tolearances and would explode..

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by Jozzer

The 111 is not a larger motor, just more efficient under heavy loadings (bigger magnets, larger airgap and wound for higher voltage but with the same cross sectional area of copper)..
100v max, so you'd want three in series to get the best of a Soliton Jnr.

Motors in series do carry one nasty risk - if the coupling device (chain or shaft, or even the keyway) lets go then one motor can immediatly spin past safe tolearances and would explode..

Can Agni motors be built/stacked on the same shaft like the Lynch motors can?....see reference below,

http://www.lmcltd.net/uploads/files/...C%20Motors.pdf
Any model of the LEM-200 can be made up into the 2X2 version this is 2 motors married together on a single shaft see installation drawing for details

Or would they have to be coupled "externally" using chain/belt drives or couplers, etc.

25kw cont.
50kw peak @ 6000rpm
26lbs
2500$ in limited qty preproduction volumes

x3 =
7500$
75kw cont.
150kw peak @ 6000rpm
78lbs

2000$ Soliton1 Jr.
15lbs.

150kw @ 6000rpm
93lbs motors + controller !

[Jozzer]

No, the Agni's can't be stacked like the LMC's - and in any case you wouldn't be able to run them full power if you did. Cooling is restricted, as well as access to brushes etc.

50kw is a bit of a stretch from any data supplied - even 40kw would still require revving right out and still supplying 400A (not that I haven't done it mind!), you wouldn't want to be treating it like that on an every day basis..

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by Jozzer

Parrallel PM motors CAN work as long as both motors are carefully matched. There have been far more parallel Agni racing than series - due to the lack of decent 200v controllers. Timing must be set very carefully, and checked at all power levels. Data from the qualifying lap of TT showed 2 motors pulling within 5% of equal amps all through the lap....

Paralleled PM motors behave like two voltage sources - any difference in voltage constant (kV) between the two motors results in one acting as a generator and the other a motor, and that sets up a circulating current on the paralleling cables. The best way to see how well matched the motors are, then, is to monitor the circulating current on one of the parallel cables while the bike is coasting, decelerating with regen, and accelerating.

[Dennis]

Regen braking is no where near as rough on a motor than plug braking is. Yet I see PM motors on equipment being routinely used in this fashion without damage. In robot competitions the motors are plugged brake to bring them to a complete stop before going the other way. The same is true for forklifts, yet I see no damage on the commutators or motors overheating. Forklifts have to run for 6 hours or more in a hot or cold warehouse environment, but I have not seen one failure of motors. Any decent motor for traction applications should have class H insulation anyways and any controller that has a reputation would gradually slow down the motor before changing direction or to bring to a stop. If a controller tries to slam the motor to a stop then of course there will be a problem. But that would be a cheap junk controller.

If you want regen then the best are Curtis or Sevcon Millipak for PM motors or SepEx motors.