[EVDL List]

Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member
"The gas vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank in a few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the inconvenience of having to make the trip to the gas station in the first place. With Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the gas pump concept, but also even the concept of going to a refueling station in the first place. An EV can charge almost anywhere, anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid which is the single most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and because it is charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to plug and unplug.

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[EVDL List]

I certainly agree that, ultimately, locations where one can charge can be
much more prolific than gas stations. However, it seems a large stretch to
include the time going to a gas station as part of the refueling time.

I think most people stop to fill up while on some other errand. Second, as
was indicated in another post, many people do not have the opportunity to
charge at home - rental house, no off-street parking, apartment, ... Thus,
it seems most people (not the early adopters like us) will not see charging
at home as a big advantage.

Maybe in the very long run, there will be Opportunity Charging just about
everywhere you can stop a car. In the very long run

Peri




-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of robert winfield
Sent: 02 July, 2012 3:59 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: [EVDL] paradigm shift


Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member
"The gas vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once
there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank in a
few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the inconvenience of
having to make the trip to the gas station in the first place. With
Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the gas pump concept, but also
even the concept of going to a refueling station in the first place. An EV
can charge almost anywhere, anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid
which is the single most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and
because it is charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the
inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to plug and
unplug.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
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[EVDL List]

Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could have a
cable buried for inductive power transfer.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behalf
Of robert winfield
Sent: Tuesday, 3 July 2012 10:59 a.m.
To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
Subject: [EVDL] paradigm shift


Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member
"The gas vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once
there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank in a
few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the inconvenience of
having to make the trip to the gas station in the first place. With
Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the gas pump concept, but also
even the concept of going to a refueling station in the first place. An EV
can charge almost anywhere, anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid
which is the single most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and
because it is charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the
inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to plug and
unplug.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2437.1.1/5107 - Release Date: 07/04/12
06:34:00

_______________________________________________
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|
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[EVDL List]

[quote]George Tyler wrote:
> Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could have a
> cable buried for inductive power transfer.

Technologically, this could be done. There are working examples of
inductive power transfer systems. Disney's theme parks use them for
their "peoplemover" trains, for example.

The problem is that the cost per mile is higher, and that it is (as the
title of this thread says) a paradigm shift. Society gets "stuck" on one
way of doing things, and is unwilling to change.

--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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[EVDL List]

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[EVDL List]

That is why you need to swipe your charger smartcard =

(ChargePoint or Blink or whatever) and this allows even
"dumb" (no computer / no communication) conversions to
charge at a "smart" EVSE. I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at
just about any of the active public charge points in the area
by just swiping my card. All the truck has to do is to accept
the 240V AC and not draw more than about 25A which is exactly
what my non-computerized Bycan charger does. The J-1772 inlet
will have to go through the pilot handshake to make the EVSE
happy, but there are small control boards for that - it does
not even need a processor, just buy that board together with
the inlet plug and install in a weatherproof box in the
original fuel filler door. Cool, can I finally use that door
to fuel up the truck and since it is right next to the
driver door, there is no need to add a warning to not drive
away with the vehicle plugged in - you have to step over or
push the cord out of the way to get into the cabin...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On Behal=
f Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:38 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] paradigm shift

Inductive charging while driving is in the active R&D stage. A search of th=
e nabble evdl archive gives:

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4360944
EVLN: Embeded-highway magnetic-resonance EVSE

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4336856
Article: "The Dawn of the Electric Highway"


Inductive charging while parked is already available with two major players=
vying for your business. Some Automakers are including inductive charging =
with their plugin-vehicle as a selling point.

To my knowledge the current highest transfer rate is at 5kW which IMO, is p=
lenty to make it doable and quite close to the same power/charging-rate of =
the 6.6kW a public J1772 EVSE could provide. Plus an advantage inductive gi=
ves over refueling ice is the transfer can be hands-free or autonomous/self=
-driving accessible. Imagine a safe inductive L3 charge in 15 minutes?

Today, short of throwing cash at a valet, the fastest refuel of an ice for =
most people takes the time of: waiting in line to get to the pump, credit-c=
ard the pump and push all the buttons to begin, and returning the handle to=
the pump without spilling stinky petrol on yourself.

Whereas, pulling into an inductive spot, an inductive EVSE could read the E=
V/pih, know its ID, thus use-co$t is approved, and begin the charge immedia=
tely. With all the wireless hi-tech in today's Production EV/pih the driver=
could know and approve of the co$t of the charge before arriving and pulli=
ng into their reserved EVSE spot.


I do not know if today's J1772 allows for reading who/what is plugged in, b=
ut I would assume with the large push for V2G (grid connected vehicles), th=
at might already be in place but just not enabled as of yet (Big-Brother is=
watching).

Knowing who is plugged in (conductive or inductive) could allow automatic b=
illing and charging no matter where it is plugged in or who is plugging in. =


A possible future scenario:
A non-Fed employee comes in and charges while visiting a Fed facility.
The EVSE could know to either charge money for the EVSE use, or not if it i=
s one of their employees. It would be mainly installed for company/employee=
use, but the public could also use it if they are willing to pay.


At some point, today's Production EV/pih may be considered 'dumb' and need =
a retrofit to make it 'smart' enough to use all that I envisioned (above). =
Just another business opportunity for some bring person.
Ah, future so bright you gotta wear shades ...
[video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3D8qrriKcwvlY
emimusic on Mar 12, 2009
Music video by Timbuk 3 performing The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Sha=
des.
]

. ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=3D Get Amp'd
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
brucedp.150m.com
*Originator of the above ASCII art
% Renewable Energy for your Electric Vehicle %



-
[quote] Lee Hart wrote:
> George Tyler wrote:
> > Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could =

> > have a cable buried for inductive power transfer.
> =

> Technologically, this could be done. There are working examples of =

> inductive power transfer systems. Disney's theme parks use them for =

> their "peoplemover" trains, for example.
> =

> The problem is that the cost per mile is higher, and that it is (as =

> the title of this thread says) a paradigm shift. Society gets "stuck" =

> on one way of doing things, and is unwilling to change.
-

-
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012, at 08:42 AM, robert winfield wrote:
> right now vs an unknown time in the future for inductive charging
>
> (we have at least 3-4 EV's, Leaf's and a Volt legally charging at a =

> federal facility. A 3rd party is picking up the initial tab soNO =

> federal monies are involved .It may go to the "payin to plugin" mode =

> where hanger tags are bought (still uncertain) when test phase over.
> they are 110v, EV park 8 or so hours so no 220 is required
> =

> --- On Wed, 7/4/12, George Tyler <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> > From: George Tyler <xxx@xxx.xxx>
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] paradigm shift
> > To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 4, 2012, 12:38 AM Why not when it's moving? I =

> > imagine that sections of highway could have a cable buried for =

> > inductive power transfer.
> > =

> > -----Original Message-----
robert winfield
> > Sent: Tuesday, 3 July 2012 10:59 a.m.
> > Subject: [EVDL] paradigm shift
> > =

> > Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member "The gas =

> > vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once =

> > there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank =

> > in a few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the =

> > inconvenience of having to make the trip to the gas station in the =

> > first place. With Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the =

> > gas pump concept, but also even the concept of going to a refueling =

> > station in the first place. An EV can charge almost anywhere, =

> > anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid which is the single =

> > most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and because it is =

> > charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the =

> > inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to =

> > plug and unplug.
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class


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[EVDL List]

[quote]Cor van de Water wrote:

> I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
> inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at
> just about any of the active public charge points in the area
> by just swiping my card. All the truck has to do is to accept
> the 240V AC and not draw more than about 25A which is exactly
> what my non-computerized Bycan charger does. The J-1772 inlet
> will have to go through the pilot handshake to make the EVSE
> happy, but there are small control boards for that - it does
> not even need a processor, just buy that board together with
> the inlet plug and install in a weatherproof box in the
> original fuel filler door.

This is almost true. You can indeed do this, and it will likely work at many charge stations (at least for now).

The control boards that are available only do (less than) half of what is required for J1772. They will load the pilot signal such that most EVSEs will enable the AC power, however, the pilot signal from the EVSE tells the charger how much AC current it may draw. If the charger tries to draw more than the EVSE has allowed, then the EVSE will turn off AC entirely.

The intent is that the load can be throttle down by the utility, or perhaps even by adjacent EVSEs that are sharing a common branch circuit (e.g. only one EVSE is in use, it allows up to 40A; two are in use, each limits its load to 20A, etc.).

Cheers,

Roger.


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[EVDL List]

Hi Roger,
Since the logic in the vehicle side is so simple,
I contemplate rolling my own and also include a
check for the 50% duty cycle on the pilot signal
(indicating that 30A is available.)
If less is available (temporarily) then I might
take action such as dropping a relay to either disable
the charger completely (no AC pass through) or reduce
the charger draw to less than 10A, for example by
simply wiring a resistor in series with the pack on
the output of the charger's transformer and diodes.
While the normal bulk charging voltage is around 130-135V,
the current drops to 3-4A when the pack rises to 150V so
I probably need less than 0.6 Ohm resistance to allow approx
10V increase to 140V at max 17A which means that the primary
will be under 10A but I am still charging away at 2+kW.
As soon as the pilot returns to 50% duty cycle the series
resistor is again bridged by the relay and charging at the
full power. That resistor can be as simple as two parallel
fog lights (12V 100W) from pick-n-pull. Should be fun to
suddenly see a huge light come on inside the EV to drop
the power draw - note that it is connected to the pack so
it should be mounted away from ground connection!

However, checking my charger specs I see that it has a max
25A output and even if it succeeds in delivering this at a
pack voltage of say 140V then this means 3.5kW or about 14A
so I doubt that my charger will even be turned off by an EVSE
even if it does not allow full level 2 charging by modulating
its pilot signal.
I believe that the levels that can be signaled by the pilot are:
10% PWM is 10A max, 25% PWM is 16A max, 50% PWM is 32A max.

So I (and most Leafs) should be fine at 25% PWM and only need
to reduce power at 10% PWM pilot signal.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:51 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] paradigm shift

[quote]Cor van de Water wrote:

> I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
> inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at just about
> any of the active public charge points in the area by just swiping my
> card. All the truck has to do is to accept the 240V AC and not draw
> more than about 25A which is exactly what my non-computerized Bycan
> charger does. The J-1772 inlet will have to go through the pilot
> handshake to make the EVSE happy, but there are small control boards
> for that - it does not even need a processor, just buy that board
> together with the inlet plug and install in a weatherproof box in the
> original fuel filler door.

This is almost true. You can indeed do this, and it will likely work at
many charge stations (at least for now).

The control boards that are available only do (less than) half of what
is required for J1772. They will load the pilot signal such that most
EVSEs will enable the AC power, however, the pilot signal from the EVSE
tells the charger how much AC current it may draw. If the charger tries
to draw more than the EVSE has allowed, then the EVSE will turn off AC
entirely.

The intent is that the load can be throttle down by the utility, or
perhaps even by adjacent EVSEs that are sharing a common branch circuit
(e.g. only one EVSE is in use, it allows up to 40A; two are in use, each
limits its load to 20A, etc.).

Cheers,

Roger.


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[EVDL List]

[quote]Cor van de Water wrote:

> Since the logic in the vehicle side is so simple,
> I contemplate rolling my own and also include a
> check for the 50% duty cycle on the pilot signal
> (indicating that 30A is available.)

The logic on the vehicle side is not so simple if all of the required functionality is implemented ;^>

Your original message did not mention that you planned to add any additional logic beyond one of the off-the-shelf "control" boards that loads the EVSE pilot so that it will turn on AC power, so perhaps my cautions are unnecessary.

> I believe that the levels that can be signaled by the pilot are:
> 10% PWM is 10A max, 25% PWM is 16A max, 50% PWM is 32A max.

No; the vehicle duty cycle interpretation is:

duty <3%: error state, no charging allowed
3% <= duty <= 7%: digital communications required
7% < duty < 8%: error state, no charging allowed
8% <= duty < 10%: 6A maximum available
10% <= duty <= 85%: available current = (duty cycle %) x 0.6
85% < duty <= 96%: available current = (duty cycle % - 64) x 2.5
96% < duty <= 97%: 80A maximum available
Duty > 97%: error state, no charging allowed

Cheers,

Roger.


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[EVDL List]

I have had the opportunity to review and analyze the circuitry of several
very popular J1772 EVSE units and although it is provided for in the
specifications and features as approved by UL, in actual fact, only 50/50
was implemented in the equipment and instead a specification of source
power demands sufficient current be available, (economy in Manufacturing by
simplification of circuitry? Perhaps.) The circuitry
to ascertain the quantity of current available would seem fairly complex,
but *printing a specification* stating sufficient current *MUST* be
supplied is *very inexpensive* !
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (863)944-9913 (call noon to midnight Eastern time)
*xxx@xxx.xxx*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
*Offering a 12 day class Sept. 10 to 22, 2012 *
*in Central Florida. more info on Web;
WWW.ElectricVehicleTechnicalinstitute.COM<http://www.electricvehicletechnicalinstitute.com/>
*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
[quote] Lee Hart <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> On 7/6/2012 2:32 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > If less [power] is available (temporarily) then I might
> > take action such as dropping a relay to either disable
> > the charger completely (no AC pass through) or reduce
> > the charger draw to less than 10A, for example by
> > simply wiring a resistor in series with the pack on
> > the output of the charger's transformer and diodes.
>
> It's interesting how a constant voltage transformer works. Roughly
> speaking, it's a standard transformer but wound with a slightly lower
> primary voltage. Say, a 100vac primary for use on 120vac. The
> transformer will saturate on the AC line peaks. When it does, the output
> voltage falls to zero.
>
> By itself, this would regulate the output voltage. However, the primary
> current goes way up when the transformer saturates! So, there is a large
> extra inductance in series with the primary. When the primary saturates,
> its voltage falls to to zero, and all the AC input voltage appears
> across the inductor. This limits the primary current. When the line
> voltage moves past the peak, the inductor gives up its stored energy.
> Since it's an inductor, it doesn't lower efficiency like a resistor would.
>
> But this inductor would give it a poor power factor. So, there is a
> large AC capacitor across the secondary. It adds capacitive reactance to
> cancel out the series inductor's inductive reactance, moving the power
> fact back toward 1.0.
>
> The inductor isn't a separate part; they design the transformer to
> include it. It also has special low-loss core materials because it will
> operate in saturation. Saturation produces the characteristic "buzz" of
> a constant-voltage transformer.
>
> The simplest way to alter the voltage of a constant voltage transformer
> is to change the number of secondary turns. This can be done by adding a
> few turns, which you switch in series (aiding or opposing) to change the
> voltage. There is almost always room for more turns.
>
> The other way is to change the value of the AC capacitor. Less
> capacitance lowers the output voltage, and more capacitance increases
> it. This method is only good for perhaps +/-10% because it also affects
> the power factor and voltage regulation characteristics.
>
> The easiest way to adjust the capacitor value is to put a phase
> controlled light dimmer in series with it. The phase angle adjusts the
> apparent capacitance, and thus the output voltage. Note that the light
> dimmer needs to be rated for at least 240vac, because the secondary and
> capacitor voltage is often 240vac (or more)!
>
> Most constant voltage transformer chargers are deliberately designed to
> have a "taper" charging algorithm. They behave like a "fixed" voltage
> supply with a series resistance. It delivers maximum current at the
> lowest pack voltage, and the current falls linearly as the battery
> voltage rises. But it has two extra useful features; The output is
> intrinsically current limited (won't deliver more than about 150% into
> even a shorted battery), and zero-current voltage is only about 120%
> higher.
>
> But when it's desired, they can have a nearly flat voltage vs. current
> curve. Output voltage can be within +/2% for output currents from 1/4 to
> full load, and for a +/-20% change in AC line voltage. This makes a good
> power supply, but a poor lead-acid battery charger. It could be useful
> for charging lithium batteries, however.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in.
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs xxx@xxx.xxx
>
> _______________________________________________
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