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  #11  
Old 07-11-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

Here is a method to prevent power cords being stolen that we use at our work
sites. Even if we lock the power receptacles at both end, they would just
cut off the cords. The next time they cut the power cables, we left on the
power which give them a bad hair day.

The best way is not to show a new power cable laying around. When we make
up new cables and connectors, we wrap it with that cloth type friction tape
in several spots to look likes it has be splice which some bare wires
sticking out which are not connected to anything.

Then we tie it to a back of a vehicle and drag it over dirty roads until it
looks like it should be thrown away.

This works every time.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies


> Thanks Roger for your thoughts/views.
>
> Perhaps you had to be there pushing the envelope like I was, or perhaps
> after being stuck for lack of infrastructure and support back then, that
> heightened my fears/concerns. I was vandalized several times, but was
> also smart enough to have a back up plan (6 on-board chargers, a gym bag
> of adapters, and a back seat of extension cords) when I was out in the
> middle of nowhere.
>
> IMO The locking of the dangling Avcon adapter is also just has kludgy
> looking as today's Level-1 EVSE the Leaf comes with. It just seems to be
> cleaner-looking to only have an extension cord coming to and from the
> EV, than all that 'stuff' dangling off it.
>
> Appearances, another point I am concerned with, potential consumer's
> opinion/how does it visually affect them. While I am sure I could find a
> way to secure the Leaf's L1 EVSE, it would not stop the non-EV driving
> public from forming 'OGM what a nightmare' opinions of how to
> fill-the-EV-tank (as it were). My other goal it to minimize their silly
> notions whenever possible (yea, I know that is a near impossible task,
> but still I try).
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
>
> -
> [quote] Roger Stockton wrote:
> > brucedp5 wrote:
> >
> > > I was not concerned with losing extension cords.
> > >
> > > I was concerned with losing either the Level-1 EVSE that comes with
> > > the Leaf or the Level-2 EVSE I would buy and carry with me.
> >
> > My point was to determine how much of this is simply fear mongering.
> >
> > Someone who would swipe a Level-1 EVSE from a car plugged in at a public
> > place is just as likely (more likely, IMHO) to swipe an ordinary
> > extension cord in the same situation.
> >
> > If you weren't losing extension cords with any frequency over the years
> > that you operated your Blazer, then I have to conclude that there is no
> > evidence of a real problem needing to be solved.
> >
> > > When I would use either, it would be dangling outside where anyone
> > > could
> > > mess with it.
> >
> > That's a choice you are free to make, if you enjoy the thrill of
> > worrying
> > about whether or not your EVSE will still be there when you return ;^>
> >
> > My suggestion (which you seem to ignore?), is the no-cost option of
> > simply leaving the costly/valuable/less readily replaced EVSE portion
> > locked inside the vehicle where it cannot be readily stolen. Your
> > suggestion of securing the EVSE to the outside of the vehicle is another
> > approach with minimal cost.
> >
> > > My original thought was that that Level-1 EVSE that comes with the
> > > Leaf,
> > > the manufacture would install internally so, it would be powered via
> > > the
> > > 5-15 inlet I suggested, and the output would be directly connected to
> > > the
> > > built-in charger.
> > >
> > > The built-in charger would have to be able to lock out all other power
> > > inputs to only use the first one plugged in\providing power. So, if I
> > > applied power via the proposed 5-15 inlet, alos plugging in the J1772
> > > or
> > > Level-3 inlet would do nothing and not be used. And vice-verse,
> > > applying
> > > power using the J1772 inlet, the 5-15 and Level-3 inlet would be
> > > disabled.
> > > I am thinking, that method would resolve the pilot issue as only one
> > > is
> > > being used (etc.).
> >
> > I don't think this approach actually simplifies much. You still end up
> > with two separate power runs to the charger, and the charger must till
> > contain one or more relays to allow connecting itself to one of the
> > power
> > inputs without cross-connecting AC from one inlet to the other. With
> > the
> > J1772 inlet, the charger monitors the proximity signal so that it can
> > detect if a cord is plugged in and prevent driveaway even if AC is
> > absent. It can also use this signal to terminate the load before the
> > power contacts separate upon disconnection. Then there is the pilot
> > signal. It is possible that the charger could be modified to accept
> > pilot signals from both sources, or to treat the 5-15 inlet differently,
> > and use it preferentially with a hard-coded AC current limit whenever
> > line voltage is sensed on its pins.
> >
> > Ultimately, this adds cost to *every* vehicle produced, in order to
> > satisfy an unlikely need that is perceived by few potential buyers. I
> > disagree with you that this would be an easy sell.
> >
> > The OEMs provide a flimsy, inconvenient scissor jack for use in the
> > infrequent emergency requiring a tire to be changed. Sure, they could
> > provide a nice hydraulic jack that the small subset of owners
> > unfortunate
> > enough to suffer flats routinely would appreciate (they could even build
> > a pneumatic jack into each corner of the vehicle to allow easily raising
> > any wheel at the push of a button, catering to the even smaller subset
> > of
> > owners who both suffer flats routinely and are unable to operate a
> > manual
> > jack easily). They don't because either of these would add cost to
> > every
> > vehicle sold and benefit such a small percentage of the potential
> > ownership that increase in cost would reduce the number of sales by a
> > far
> > greater amount than the number of additional sales the feature might
> > attract.
> >
> > > I would like to know that at anytime, I could quickly plug into a
> > > regular
> > > 120VAC outlet easily using an expendable extension cord (basically,
> > > thieves can mess with extension cord all they want, but do not mess
> > > with
> > > any EVSE I 'need' that is expensive and time-consuming to replace).
> >
> > I think we've established that there are already at least two ways to
> > achieve this without adding cost or complexity to every vehicle.
> > Mission
> > accomplished, I think! ;^>
> -
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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  #12  
Old 07-11-2012, 03:35 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

[quote]Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> IMO The locking of the dangling Avcon adapter is also just as kludgy
> looking as today's Level-1 EVSE the Leaf comes with. It just seems to be
> cleaner-looking to only have an extension cord coming to and from the
> EV, than all that 'stuff' dangling off it.

I wonder about that myself. A friend brought his Chevy Volt over the
other day. Its charging cord has a huge "pod", over a foot long and
weighing several pounds. It has a long cord that goes to the Volt's
J-1772 charging receptacle, and a very short 120vac cord to plug into
the AC wall receptacle. This "pod" is heavy, with lots of blinking
lights, and is oddly shaped so the cord wraps around it for storage. It
also has some kind of strain sensor, so the slightest pull on the cord
make it shut down.

The cord is too short for the pod to lay on the ground and reach a
normal-height AC outlet. There's no way to stand it up, due to the odd
shape. If you "hang" the pod by the cord, it shuts itself down from
strain on the cord. After many shut-downs, we had to set the pod on a
milk crate to raise it off the ground and get it to keep working.

The pod is also an "attractive" target for someone to mess with or
steal. A big expensive-looking box with blinking lights and

GM has managed to take something simple like plugging in an appliance
into an awkward ordeal.

--
An engineer can do for a nickel what any damn fool can do for a dollar.
-- Henry Ford
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs xxx@xxx.xxx

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2012, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

I think Roland had the solution for that problem:
take the box for a drive (you can't drive away with
the box plugged in, like what happened to numerous
people at the gas station) but certainly you can tie
it with a piece of rope to the car and run up and down a
dirt road a few times with the cord and box dragging
behind the vehicle. After that even the blinking lights
won't convince any modern day kid to steal it...

BTW, that "strain sensor" is that simply a loose wire
internally or did the box *indicate* that strain was put
on the cord? It is totally ridiculous, I have not seen
any appliance that shuts down when you put strain on its cord.

I wonder what would happen if GM would put a strain sensor
on their cars - you would not be going anywhere fast!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

[quote]Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> IMO The locking of the dangling Avcon adapter is also just as kludgy
> looking as today's Level-1 EVSE the Leaf comes with. It just seems to
> be cleaner-looking to only have an extension cord coming to and from
> the EV, than all that 'stuff' dangling off it.

I wonder about that myself. A friend brought his Chevy Volt over the
other day. Its charging cord has a huge "pod", over a foot long and
weighing several pounds. It has a long cord that goes to the Volt's
J-1772 charging receptacle, and a very short 120vac cord to plug into
the AC wall receptacle. This "pod" is heavy, with lots of blinking
lights, and is oddly shaped so the cord wraps around it for storage. It
also has some kind of strain sensor, so the slightest pull on the cord
make it shut down.

The cord is too short for the pod to lay on the ground and reach a
normal-height AC outlet. There's no way to stand it up, due to the odd
shape. If you "hang" the pod by the cord, it shuts itself down from
strain on the cord. After many shut-downs, we had to set the pod on a
milk crate to raise it off the ground and get it to keep working.

The pod is also an "attractive" target for someone to mess with or
steal. A big expensive-looking box with blinking lights and

GM has managed to take something simple like plugging in an appliance
into an awkward ordeal.

--
An engineer can do for a nickel what any damn fool can do for a dollar.
-- Henry Ford
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs xxx@xxx.xxx

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:25 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

Yes! Lee has got that last point I was making. Basically it looks bad.

To some of us die-hard EVrs, 'we' could care less how it looks as long
as it functions. But to the non-EV-addicted public it looks like a
science-project after-thought, or perhaps even more graphic, a dirty
long dangling booger/bogie
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002694391/15307974_boogers_xlarge.jpeg

Whether you like pih or not, you must admit the Ampera & Volt are good
looking GM vehicles. Whether you go for the French aerodynamic tweaks of
the Leaf, all vehicles are visually degraded with that Level-1 EVSE
'stuff' dangling out of it
http://misterhorrible.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452f2d569e2012876d57620970c-800wi

Whereas a plain straight extension cord going to and from a vehicle is
much more visually acceptable to the general public.

Perhaps Roger is right that my vandalism concerns puts me in the
minority. But if the Level-1 EVSE were internal and connected to an
extension cord inlet, both of my concerns would be addressed, and the
public would be more accepting with the use of and how EVs/pih look
while charging.


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
[quote] Lee Hart wrote:
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > IMO The locking of the dangling Avcon adapter is also just as kludgy
> > looking as today's Level-1 EVSE the Leaf comes with. It just seems to be
> > cleaner-looking to only have an extension cord coming to and from the
> > EV, than all that 'stuff' dangling off it.
>
> I wonder about that myself. A friend brought his Chevy Volt over the
> other day. Its charging cord has a huge "pod", over a foot long and
> weighing several pounds. It has a long cord that goes to the Volt's
> J-1772 charging receptacle, and a very short 120vac cord to plug into
> the AC wall receptacle. This "pod" is heavy, with lots of blinking
> lights, and is oddly shaped so the cord wraps around it for storage. It
> also has some kind of strain sensor, so the slightest pull on the cord
> make it shut down.
>
> The cord is too short for the pod to lay on the ground and reach a
> normal-height AC outlet. There's no way to stand it up, due to the odd
> shape. If you "hang" the pod by the cord, it shuts itself down from
> strain on the cord. After many shut-downs, we had to set the pod on a
> milk crate to raise it off the ground and get it to keep working.
>
> The pod is also an "attractive" target for someone to mess with or
> steal. A big expensive-looking box with blinking lights and
>
> GM has managed to take something simple like plugging in an appliance
> into an awkward ordeal.
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:25 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
EVDL List Bot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 70
EVDL List is on a distinguished road
Default Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV charging for dummies

Yes! Lee has got that last point I was making. Basically it looks bad.

To some of us die-hard EVrs, 'we' could care less how it looks as long
as it functions. But to the non-EV-addicted public it looks like a
science-project after-thought, or perhaps even more graphic, a dirty
long dangling booger/bogie
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002694391/15307974_boogers_xlarge.jpeg

Whether you like pih or not, you must admit the Ampera & Volt are good
looking GM vehicles. Whether you go for the French aerodynamic tweaks of
the Leaf, all vehicles are visually degraded with that Level-1 EVSE
'stuff' dangling out of it
http://misterhorrible.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452f2d569e2012876d57620970c-800wi

Whereas a plain straight extension cord going to and from a vehicle is
much more visually acceptable to the general public.

Perhaps Roger is right that my vandalism concerns puts me in the
minority. But if the Level-1 EVSE were internal and connected to an
extension cord inlet, both of my concerns would be addressed, and the
public would be more accepting with the use of and how EVs/pih look
while charging.


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
[quote] Lee Hart wrote:
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > IMO The locking of the dangling Avcon adapter is also just as kludgy
> > looking as today's Level-1 EVSE the Leaf comes with. It just seems to be
> > cleaner-looking to only have an extension cord coming to and from the
> > EV, than all that 'stuff' dangling off it.
>
> I wonder about that myself. A friend brought his Chevy Volt over the
> other day. Its charging cord has a huge "pod", over a foot long and
> weighing several pounds. It has a long cord that goes to the Volt's
> J-1772 charging receptacle, and a very short 120vac cord to plug into
> the AC wall receptacle. This "pod" is heavy, with lots of blinking
> lights, and is oddly shaped so the cord wraps around it for storage. It
> also has some kind of strain sensor, so the slightest pull on the cord
> make it shut down.
>
> The cord is too short for the pod to lay on the ground and reach a
> normal-height AC outlet. There's no way to stand it up, due to the odd
> shape. If you "hang" the pod by the cord, it shuts itself down from
> strain on the cord. After many shut-downs, we had to set the pod on a
> milk crate to raise it off the ground and get it to keep working.
>
> The pod is also an "attractive" target for someone to mess with or
> steal. A big expensive-looking box with blinking lights and
>
> GM has managed to take something simple like plugging in an appliance
> into an awkward ordeal.
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html

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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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