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  #1  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:15 AM
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Default [EVDL] advertising

Most people in this country are fed up with the add campaigns that run every 13 mins on TV. I dont care if its for a electric car or tooth paste. If GM wants to spend money on add no pays any attention to thats their business. 99 % of people who are going to buy something have already made up their minds. no amount of advertising will change that. Point... Lexus has about 200 adds a day across every cable channel, they want you to buy a life style, not a car, If they have to push that over priced toyota that much, people see through the adds. Rolls Royce runs NO adds in the US,,,Hmmmm wonder why. I have owned 2 Rolls ,there that good Look at the news networks there all against EVs of any kind. People actually believe news peoples opinions .

So you run an add, give 1/2 truths, price it out of the average joes hands ..and see what happens, its all a crap shoot any ways
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

Wake up and smell the coffee, remove the adds and you remove the programming.
Hmmm, what then?

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  #3  
Old 07-17-2012, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

[quote]On 17 Jul 2012 at 10:06, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:

> 99 % of people who are going to buy something have already made up
> their minds. no amount of advertising will change that. ... Look at the
> news networks there all against EVs of any kind. People actually
> believe news peoples opinions .

This may be true for you and your friends, but experience and a lot of
marketing research show that advertising makes people buy stuff.

That's how Hyundai managed to sell thousands of their really abominable
early Excels in the US about 25 years ago. Advertising also completely
changed the image of trucks and SUVs. They were once perceived as vehicles
for farmers, tradesmen, and sport devotees, certainly not for executives and
families.

As for whether people trust news reporters - while anecdotally some people
seem to be almost religiously devoted to certain rather loud commentators,
in 2009 the Pew Research Center reported the results of a poll showing that
trust in news media had reached an all-time low. A majority - 63 percent -
said news articles were often inaccurate. Only 29 percent said the media
generally "get the facts straight."

Of course a lot of this is like politics - negative advertising always
eventually splashes back on you. Some media spend as much of their time
knocking other media as reporting, which only serves to further reduce
confidence in the news media as a whole. I won't go any further with this
since it's off topic, except in the sense that it probably doesn't matter
all that much what news people say about EVs, since less than a third of
their audience actually believes them.

> Rolls Royce runs NO ads in the US ... wonder why.

Because they're not a mass market product. Neither are Corvettes, and you
don't often see ads for them either, do you?

Rolls had a record year in 2011, selling 3,538 cars, a 30% increase over
2010. Toyota sales were down 7% to 1,644,661 cars in 2011. (Possible
reasons that Rolls grew and Toyota shrank will be left as an exercise for
the reader. ;-) Toyota is a mass market company. Rolls is not.

Presumably Rolls builds enough profit into each car that they don't need to
sell large volumes. Nor would they want to; they're selling not just a car,
but also prestige and exclusivity - which incidentally are part of what
Tesla are offering, too.

For a large company, the decision to advertise or not is usually a tactical
one. GM probably didn't advertise the EV1 because it wasn't profitable, and
they were losing money on every one they leased. Indeed, by all
indications, it was never intended to be profitable. They expected and/or
wanted it to fail.

(An aside: supposedly, when GM showed the Impact prototype at the 1990 LA
auto show, one of their executives, possibly Robert Stempel himself, was
standing next to a member of CARB. The CARB rep was praising the Impact and
its potential to the heavens. Stempel listened for a few minutes. Finally,
his unease and disbelief growing, he asked the CARB guy, "You're not going
to make us actually BUILD that car, are you?")

On the other hand, the Hyundai Excel was designed to be profitable over the
long haul, even after the cost of an extensive ad campaign.

I'd like to be the proverbial fly on the wall in Nissan's boardrooms; then I
might have some idea about their ad strategy for the Leaf. Guesses: it
depends on how much they're making (or losing) on each copy, and when they
expect it to become profitable (if ever). It depends on whether they're
sure they have a solid supply of materials, especially the battery. And it
depends on how they define success for that car.

GM claimed they were going to "make a business of" the EV1. They didn't.
So far I don't recall hearing Nissan say anything similar, but they seem to
be more serious about it than GM ever was. I sure hope so. Time will tell.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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  #4  
Old 07-17-2012, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

Seeing the facts that Nissan is having aggressive
plans for the future of the Leaf, reducing its price
and ramping up production IIRC, you would certainly
think that they see the Leaf the same way that
Toyota saw their Prius one decade ago.
Relatively slow start, but ramping up and a waiting
list until suddenly they appear to have sold over a
million units. I hope and somewhat expect Nissan to
do the same with the Leaf: make it profitable enough
for them, it appears to be well-engineered enough
to be mass produced and become a "bread and butter"
line in their program.
(Remember the loud exclamations by GM engineers about
the Prius that there was no way Toyota could make a
profit on these too complex cars? And that against the
backdrop that around the same time Toyota released numbers
showing that they had achieved break-even on the Prius)

Time will tell the story on the Leaf.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:16 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] advertising

[quote]On 17 Jul 2012 at 10:06, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:

> 99 % of people who are going to buy something have already made up
> their minds. no amount of advertising will change that. ... Look at
> the news networks there all against EVs of any kind. People actually
> believe news peoples opinions .

This may be true for you and your friends, but experience and a lot of
marketing research show that advertising makes people buy stuff.

That's how Hyundai managed to sell thousands of their really abominable
early Excels in the US about 25 years ago. Advertising also completely
changed the image of trucks and SUVs. They were once perceived as
vehicles for farmers, tradesmen, and sport devotees, certainly not for
executives and families.

As for whether people trust news reporters - while anecdotally some
people seem to be almost religiously devoted to certain rather loud
commentators, in 2009 the Pew Research Center reported the results of a
poll showing that trust in news media had reached an all-time low. A
majority - 63 percent - said news articles were often inaccurate. Only
29 percent said the media generally "get the facts straight."

Of course a lot of this is like politics - negative advertising always
eventually splashes back on you. Some media spend as much of their time
knocking other media as reporting, which only serves to further reduce
confidence in the news media as a whole. I won't go any further with
this since it's off topic, except in the sense that it probably doesn't
matter all that much what news people say about EVs, since less than a
third of their audience actually believes them.

> Rolls Royce runs NO ads in the US ... wonder why.

Because they're not a mass market product. Neither are Corvettes, and
you don't often see ads for them either, do you?

Rolls had a record year in 2011, selling 3,538 cars, a 30% increase over
2010. Toyota sales were down 7% to 1,644,661 cars in 2011. (Possible
reasons that Rolls grew and Toyota shrank will be left as an exercise
for the reader. ;-) Toyota is a mass market company. Rolls is not.

Presumably Rolls builds enough profit into each car that they don't need
to sell large volumes. Nor would they want to; they're selling not just
a car, but also prestige and exclusivity - which incidentally are part
of what Tesla are offering, too.

For a large company, the decision to advertise or not is usually a
tactical one. GM probably didn't advertise the EV1 because it wasn't
profitable, and they were losing money on every one they leased.
Indeed, by all indications, it was never intended to be profitable.
They expected and/or wanted it to fail.

(An aside: supposedly, when GM showed the Impact prototype at the 1990
LA auto show, one of their executives, possibly Robert Stempel himself,
was standing next to a member of CARB. The CARB rep was praising the
Impact and its potential to the heavens. Stempel listened for a few
minutes. Finally, his unease and disbelief growing, he asked the CARB
guy, "You're not going to make us actually BUILD that car, are you?")

On the other hand, the Hyundai Excel was designed to be profitable over
the long haul, even after the cost of an extensive ad campaign.

I'd like to be the proverbial fly on the wall in Nissan's boardrooms;
then I might have some idea about their ad strategy for the Leaf.
Guesses: it depends on how much they're making (or losing) on each copy,
and when they expect it to become profitable (if ever). It depends on
whether they're sure they have a solid supply of materials, especially
the battery. And it depends on how they define success for that car.

GM claimed they were going to "make a business of" the EV1. They
didn't.
So far I don't recall hearing Nissan say anything similar, but they seem
to be more serious about it than GM ever was. I sure hope so. Time
will tell.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .

[top]


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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2012, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

WOW, I'm feeling my age tonight, I recall when broadcast TV had advertising
but it was limited to 30 sec on the hour and half hour and 15 sec in the
quarter hour maximum. And then I started working in 1979 for a cable TV
company (As the studio Engineer, I maintained all the equipment, and the
only advertising was on the broadcast channels and HBO, and other
premium channels had no advertising. but by 1980 all the cable channels had
advertising also. (I still feel that if there is advertising then there
should be no charge to watch and vice-versa).
--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (863)944-9913 (call noon to midnight Eastern time)
*xxx@xxx.xxx*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
*Offering a 12 day class Sept. 10 to 22, 2012 *
*in Central Florida. more info on Web;
WWW.ElectricVehicleTechnicalinstitute.COM<http://www.electricvehicletechnicalinstitute.com/>
*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
[quote] Cor van de Water <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Watch the TV while it is off. Very relaxing.
> I actually haven't had a TV subscription for years now
> and it saves me *so* much time and frustration...
> (my wife was very happy to discover that she can watch
> just about any program via the internet anyway)
> Besides, I look at the back of a TV more often than
> the screen. I used to fix and sell old TVs to make college money.
> Can you imagine bicycling a couple miles through town with a
> 24" tube TV on the bike rack, holding it with one hand?
> I never dropped one, but came close a few times. Some of those
> TVs were curb-finds. I still own a 1958 Philips TV that works.
>
> The most useful programming that I have seen is the test pattern
> that was broadcast after the end of the normal programming late
> at night and most of the day, before the TV became a 24/7 medium.
>
> What I see happening in the last few years is the introduction of
> digital TV which not only eliminates the video recorders, because
> it is now only a harddrive in a receiver, but also allows you to
> skip every advertisement with the push of a button (fast forward)
> so I think that advertisement coverage will be dropping at an
> alarming rate and more ads will become integrated into the
> programming (this program sponsored by...) and using the products
> of the sponsor in the program and mentioning their name during the
> program, so there is no escape.
> When will we see James Bond escape from a tight spot in a Leaf?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of Rick Beebe
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:12 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] advertising
>
> On 07/17/2012 11:10 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> > Wake up and smell the coffee, remove the adds and you remove the
> programming.
> > Hmmm, what then?
>
> Ummm. HBO?
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2012, 11:27 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

I don't mind the integration of product usage smoothly into the story line
in fact I much prefer it to a 120 second advertisement for Viagra, or
Trojans. Incorporating something new like EV into a popular TV show might
be a good thing, Remember the TV series "Emergency" strongly influenced the
creation of the modern "FIRE RESCUE" service in most cities and towns now.
(Sorry I forgot myself in my excitement and I seemed to wander off the EV
topic...
Regards,
Dennis Miles
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
[quote] Cor van de Water <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Watch the TV while it is off. Very relaxing.
> I actually haven't had a TV subscription for years now
> and it saves me *so* much time and frustration...
> (my wife was very happy to discover that she can watch
> just about any program via the internet anyway)
> Besides, I look at the back of a TV more often than
> the screen. I used to fix and sell old TVs to make college money.
> Can you imagine bicycling a couple miles through town with a
> 24" tube TV on the bike rack, holding it with one hand?
> I never dropped one, but came close a few times. Some of those
> TVs were curb-finds. I still own a 1958 Philips TV that works.
>
> The most useful programming that I have seen is the test pattern
> that was broadcast after the end of the normal programming late
> at night and most of the day, before the TV became a 24/7 medium.
>


> <<<<Right, I used it to adjust the alignment of the video
> intermediate>>>>>

<<<<frequency amplifiers (High, Low, Middle overlapping frequency >>>>>

<<<<<bands to get the 3.6 MHz of "Flat topped" bandwidth.) >>>>>>
>


> What I see happening in the last few years is the introduction of
> digital TV which not only eliminates the video recorders, because
> it is now only a harddrive in a receiver, but also allows you to
> skip every advertisement with the push of a button (fast forward)
> so I think that advertisement coverage will be dropping at an
> alarming rate and more ads will become integrated into the
> programming (this program sponsored by...) and using the products
> of the sponsor in the program and mentioning their name during the
> program, so there is no escape.
> When will we see James Bond escape from a tight spot in a Leaf?
> <<<< When the "Leaf" can fly.>>>>>,
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of Rick Beebe
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:12 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] advertising
>
> On 07/17/2012 11:10 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> > Wake up and smell the coffee, remove the adds and you remove the
> programming.
> > Hmmm, what then?
>
> Ummm. HBO?
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:57 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] advertising

[quote] Marion Hakanson wrote:

> The TV show "Fringe" last season had the protagonist FBI agent driving a
> Nissan Leaf much of the time, instead of the usual Ford SUV's of the
> previous season. They even showed her plugging it in at an EVSE, and I
> recall the Leaf being present across multiple episodes. It was all
> pretty low-key, none of the characters spoke of it, they just got in and
> drove, then got out at their destinations.

That's pretty much exactly what I do with my Leaf. I get in, drive it
until I get to my destination, then get out. I can't imagine what else I
would do with it.

I'm still trying to figure out how people who live ten or fifteen miles
from work manage to drive well over 100 miles everyday, and are able to do
this driving less than 15,000 miles a year. I don't think my Leaf could
do that. I drive about 30 miles on a typical day and have put 12,500
miles on it in my first year.

Ed


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