[EVDL List]

Hi Folk's,
I was thinking (it can happen) that since I drive 30 miles one way to work, my boss lets me plug in but it's from a 85% coal fired source (Roanoke, VA). At home I'm 100% solar. It takes 50ah for 30 miles on my 130ah CALB 36ea pack. Is longevity better I assume (like lead) to do say 50% DOD rather than 80% DOD daily? Round trip would be 100ah (if I don't get parts at lunch - on a no part day).
Have a renewable energy day,Mark www.REEVA.info
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[EVDL List]

If you are charging during the day at work from coal power, it probably
isn't baseload coal at that point, so the argument about saving capacity
investment (embedded energy costs of either more PV at the house, or added
coal plant capacity) probably doesn't work like it might if you were doing
nighttime charging, when you could possibly ignore the construction impact
of the coal plant, since it's already there as a baseload plant?

Z

[quote] Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> It may be better from an environmental standpoint to charge your
> batteries at work (to 80% charged anyways). More CO2 in the air, but
> if your batteries last longer that would be overall less toxic
> chemicals in the landfill. I don't think anybody really knows the
> correct answer for longevity vs CO2 vs toxic waste numbers for Lithium
> cells yet.
>
> It will certainly save you money (for electricity, plus life on the
> batteries), plus could allow you to have a slightly lower cost (and
> impact) solar system at your house (unless your solar system is
> already sized to charge 100% at home).
>
> Jay
>
> On 07/19/2012 08:16 AM, Mark Hanson wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folk's, I was thinking (it can happen) that since I drive 30
> > miles one way to work, my boss lets me plug in but it's from a 85%
> > coal fired source (Roanoke, VA). At home I'm 100% solar. It takes
> > 50ah for 30 miles on my 130ah CALB 36ea pack. Is longevity better
> > I assume (like lead) to do say 50% DOD rather than 80% DOD daily?
> > Round trip would be 100ah (if I don't get parts at lunch - on a no
> > part day). Have a renewable energy day,Mark www.REEVA.info
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[EVDL List]

I believe that wen you get down to the granular level of a single persons electricity usage the generalized fuel mix logic breaks down rather quickly. Because of the way the grid operates you can not simply say that you usage at home will increase electricity production from a coal based plant.

In fact you usage may contribute to local load that allows a more local natural gas plant increase its output. The power system is complicated and the method used to generate your 30% coal is simplified, and that is before you take into account the time of day issues that Zeke mentions, or the incremental impacts of shortening the battery life therefore increasing the resource usage to recycle and replace your batteries.

I consider myself somewhat of a crunch groovy environmentalist and without a doubt I would charge at work in your situation.


John



[quote] Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> If you are charging during the day at work from coal power, it probably
> isn't baseload coal at that point, so the argument about saving capacity
> investment (embedded energy costs of either more PV at the house, or added
> coal plant capacity) probably doesn't work like it might if you were doing
> nighttime charging, when you could possibly ignore the construction impact
> of the coal plant, since it's already there as a baseload plant?
>
> Z
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> It may be better from an environmental standpoint to charge your
>> batteries at work (to 80% charged anyways). More CO2 in the air, but
>> if your batteries last longer that would be overall less toxic
>> chemicals in the landfill. I don't think anybody really knows the
>> correct answer for longevity vs CO2 vs toxic waste numbers for Lithium
>> cells yet.
>>
>> It will certainly save you money (for electricity, plus life on the
>> batteries), plus could allow you to have a slightly lower cost (and
>> impact) solar system at your house (unless your solar system is
>> already sized to charge 100% at home).
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On 07/19/2012 08:16 AM, Mark Hanson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folk's, I was thinking (it can happen) that since I drive 30
>>> miles one way to work, my boss lets me plug in but it's from a 85%
>>> coal fired source (Roanoke, VA). At home I'm 100% solar. It takes
>>> 50ah for 30 miles on my 130ah CALB 36ea pack. Is longevity better
>>> I assume (like lead) to do say 50% DOD rather than 80% DOD daily?
>>> Round trip would be 100ah (if I don't get parts at lunch - on a no
>>> part day). Have a renewable energy day,Mark www.REEVA.info
>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>> scrubbed... URL:
>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________ | Moratorium on
>>> drag racing discussion is in effect. | Please take those
>>> discussions elsewhere. Thanks. | | REPLYING: address your message
>>> to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only. | Multiple-address or CCed messages may
>>> be rejected. | UNSUBSCRIBE:
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>> bEAAniHNcChXff0Eb4/icjk8fOKRMTX1
>> =z+Nu
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>> |
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[EVDL List]

Hmmm
and what if you first find an unused meeting room where
a half dozen 100W bulbs are burning 24/7 and you switch
those off before you plug in to charge (5h at 1kW)?
Or what if I make sure that at Friday when everyone
leaves the office early, I switch the lights off 3 hours
early (200 fixtures with each 3x 36W tube)?
And does it matter whether I plug in during the morning
or the afternoon?

Soooo many variables...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of John O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:56 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar charge or solar-coal charge vs LiiFePO4 life

I believe that wen you get down to the granular level of a single
persons electricity usage the generalized fuel mix logic breaks down
rather quickly. Because of the way the grid operates you can not simply
say that you usage at home will increase electricity production from a
coal based plant.

In fact you usage may contribute to local load that allows a more local
natural gas plant increase its output. The power system is complicated
and the method used to generate your 30% coal is simplified, and that is
before you take into account the time of day issues that Zeke mentions,
or the incremental impacts of shortening the battery life therefore
increasing the resource usage to recycle and replace your batteries.

I consider myself somewhat of a crunch groovy environmentalist and
without a doubt I would charge at work in your situation.


John



[quote] Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> If you are charging during the day at work from coal power, it
> probably isn't baseload coal at that point, so the argument about
> saving capacity investment (embedded energy costs of either more PV at

> the house, or added coal plant capacity) probably doesn't work like it

> might if you were doing nighttime charging, when you could possibly
> ignore the construction impact of the coal plant, since it's already
there as a baseload plant?
>
> Z
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> It may be better from an environmental standpoint to charge your
>> batteries at work (to 80% charged anyways). More CO2 in the air, but
>> if your batteries last longer that would be overall less toxic
>> chemicals in the landfill. I don't think anybody really knows the
>> correct answer for longevity vs CO2 vs toxic waste numbers for
>> Lithium cells yet.
>>
>> It will certainly save you money (for electricity, plus life on the
>> batteries), plus could allow you to have a slightly lower cost (and
>> impact) solar system at your house (unless your solar system is
>> already sized to charge 100% at home).
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On 07/19/2012 08:16 AM, Mark Hanson wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folk's, I was thinking (it can happen) that since I drive 30
>>> miles one way to work, my boss lets me plug in but it's from a 85%
>>> coal fired source (Roanoke, VA). At home I'm 100% solar. It takes
>>> 50ah for 30 miles on my 130ah CALB 36ea pack. Is longevity better I

>>> assume (like lead) to do say 50% DOD rather than 80% DOD daily?
>>> Round trip would be 100ah (if I don't get parts at lunch - on a no
>>> part day). Have a renewable energy day,Mark www.REEVA.info
>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>> scrubbed... URL:
>>>
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>> 7/attachment.html
>>> _______________________________________________ | Moratorium on drag

>>> racing discussion is in effect. | Please take those discussions
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>>> xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only. | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be
>>> rejected. | UNSUBSCRIBE:
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>>
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>> bEAAniHNcChXff0Eb4/icjk8fOKRMTX1
>> =z+Nu
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> |
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