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  #11  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

Hi Davide,

I do have a BMS. The car had MiniBMS modules installed when I bought it.
They are working well enough that I don't see the need to replace them.

I see how the digital BMS can do a fine job of used energy, miles, Ah, kWh,
etc. All that can certainly give great data on the amount of pack capacity
that has been used on a particular drive. However, I don't see how they
could know total pack capacity (used capacity plus remaining capacity)
unless they see the pack discharge nearly completely. Would that be your
proposal, to drive the vehicle until the pack is nearly discharged?

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of Elithion
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:50 PM
> To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity
>
>
> Mike Nickerson wrote
> >
> > I could theoretically measure pack capacity... what should be the
> > procedure?
> >
>
> Your digital BMS will that for you. You do have a BMS, right?
>
> An analog BMS (such as the MiniBMS, EV Power, Pacific EV) is nice and
easy.
> But a digital BMS costs only marginally more yet it has all sort of
additional
> features, such as measuring your pack's effective capacity on an ongoing
> basis.
>
> The Elektromotus, Lithiumate Pro, Lithiumate Lite, Orion BMS, Lithium
> Balance or REAP BMSs will simply show you your pack's effective capacity
on
> their Graphics User Interface application.
>
> The Anhui, Claiton power, Electric Blue, EVPST, GWL Power BMSs will show
it
> to you on the included display.
>
> The REC, Rozwiazania and Tritium BMSs will report it on a data bus.
>
> Source: http://liionbms.com/php/bms-selector.php
>
>
>
> -----
> Davide Andrea
> Elithion
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Measuring-Pack-Capacity-
> tp4656800p4656880.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2012, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

[quote] Mike Nickerson <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi Davide,
>
> I do have a BMS. The car had MiniBMS modules installed when I bought it.
> They are working well enough that I don't see the need to replace them.
>
> I see how the digital BMS can do a fine job of used energy, miles, Ah, kWh,
> etc. All that can certainly give great data on the amount of pack capacity
> that has been used on a particular drive. However, I don't see how they
> could know total pack capacity (used capacity plus remaining capacity)
> unless they see the pack discharge nearly completely. Would that be your
> proposal, to drive the vehicle until the pack is nearly discharged?

It's not actually a BMS that you need to measure capacity accurately,
but an energy meter, and it just happens that more sophisticated BMSs
include one "for free". If you don't have that sort, you should be
using a separate AH meter such as an E-meter / Link-10 /
whatever-it's-called-these-days, otherwise you'll always be guessing
how much range you have left.

Anyway, with whatever energy meter you have, discharging the pack at a
constant rate is the most controlled way to perform a capacity test.
I use a 55 gallon drum full of water with about 4 metres of galvanised
wire wrapped around a piece of wood submerged in it. I connect this
to the motor controller in place of the motor, and put a brick on the
throttle pedal, and adjust that periodically to maintain 100A
discharge, until the low voltage cutoff is reached.

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  #13  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

Evan Tuer wrote
>
> It's not actually a BMS that you need to measure capacity accurately,
> but an energy meter, and it just happens that more sophisticated BMSs
> include one "for free".
>

True.

Here is a stand-alone meter that Justin sells:
http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html




-----
Davide Andrea
Elithion
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Measuring-Pack-Capacity-tp4656800p4656953.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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  #14  
Old 08-06-2012, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

[quote] Elithion <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Evan Tuer wrote
>>
>> It's not actually a BMS that you need to measure capacity accurately,
>> but an energy meter, and it just happens that more sophisticated BMSs
>> include one "for free".
>>
>
> True.
>
> Here is a stand-alone meter that Justin sells:
> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html
>

That looks pretty neat! A shame the cheap version doesn't allow for
voltage pre-scalers.. Although I suppose you could just scale the
pack voltage to the equivalent of a single cell or battery module, and
use that directly - sometimes a more useful indication anyway...

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  #15  
Old 08-06-2012, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

>> Here is a stand-alone meter that Justin sells:
>> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html

[quote]Evan Tuer wrote:
> That looks pretty neat!

This is a remarked version of the classic E-meter / Link-10 / Link-Lite
/ Link-Pro / XBM series of meters. For the price, and given the long
evolution, it *should* work pretty good. :-)

--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs xxx@xxx.xxx

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  #16  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:07 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

[quote] Lee Hart <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>>> Here is a stand-alone meter that Justin sells:
>>> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
>> That looks pretty neat!
>
> This is a remarked version of the classic E-meter / Link-10 / Link-Lite
> / Link-Pro / XBM series of meters. For the price, and given the long
> evolution, it *should* work pretty good. :-)

It looks more than just remarked, it has an LCD display and different
features, such as main and aux battery inputs. Perhaps based on or
just inspired by..?

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  #17  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

Evan,

Did some quick Googling.
Look at the bottom of this page:
http://thesolarstore.com/monitors-metering-c-49.html

Indeed, this is not like the original Link-10 (E-meter)
with red LED digits, as can be seen for example on the following page:
http://www.righthandeng.com/hm_rxbgo.htm

And btw, why should you pay $100 more for a resistor and a shifted
decimal point?
But that is a whole 'nother story.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:58 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Lee Hart <xxx@xxx.xxx>
[quote]wrote:
>>> Here is a stand-alone meter that Justin sells:
>>> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html
>
> Evan Tuer [quote]wrote:
>> That looks pretty neat!
>
> This is a remarked version of the classic E-meter / Link-10 /
> Link-Lite / Link-Pro / XBM series of meters. For the price, and given
> the long evolution, it *should* work pretty good. :-)

It looks more than just remarked, it has an LCD display and different
features, such as main and aux battery inputs. Perhaps based on or just
inspired by..?

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  #18  
Old 08-07-2012, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

>>>> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/E-Xpert%20Pro.html

[quote]Lee Hart wrote:
>> This is a remarked version of the classic E-meter / Link-10 / Link-Lite
>> / Link-Pro / XBM series of meters. For the price, and given the long
>> evolution, it *should* work pretty good. :-)
>
Evan Tuer wrote:
> It looks more than just remarked, it has an LCD display and different
> features, such as main and aux battery inputs. Perhaps based on or
> just inspired by..?

The earlier E-meter and Link-10 had LED displays. The later XBM,
Link-Lite, and Link-Pro switched to LCD displays. Same basic design
underneath, just updated over the nearly 20 year time frame these meters
have been sold.

Throughout, the actual manufacturer (first Cruising Equipment, then
Heart Interface, then Xantrex) has sold relabelled versions with other
people's front panel stickers on it.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs xxx@xxx.xxx

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  #19  
Old 08-07-2012, 11:45 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Measuring Pack Capacity

[quote]On 7 Aug 2012 at 10:44, Lee Hart wrote:

> Throughout, the actual manufacturer (first Cruising Equipment, then
> Heart Interface, then Xantrex) has sold relabelled versions with other
> people's front panel stickers on it.

I'm far from an expert on these gadgets - indeed, the only CE product I've
ever had was an ancient amp-hour counter, the distant ancestor of the E-
meter.

http://evdl.org/docs/ce-ah.pdf

However, I thought I read a few years back that one of the E-meter suppliers
had outsourced production to a Chinese manufacturer. If that's true, it
wouldn't be too surprising if the overseas manufacturer had cloned it, or
even if the design had "migrated" to other suppliers.

If all that speculation is valid, the meter now offered could be almost
anything. It could be close to an original CE/Heart/Xantrex design, the
original cheapened, the original updated, or something newly designed that
just externally resembles the E-meter. To find out for sure, you might have
to buy one and do some surgery on it. It's a tad pricey for that, though.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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