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  #1  
Old 08-16-2012, 03:55 PM
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Default [EVDL] Ultra small/light ev-- what motor-battery-controller combination?

I'verecently acquired a little 1959 Berkeley, a tiny English 2-seat s=
ports car (yeah, google it- use the club name BEC to avoid new and used car=
dealers in Berekeley CA!) that came with a 328 cc motorcycle motor (mounte=
d forward of the front axles), making only about 20 hp. But it weighs in at=
just 680 pounds (add gas and the driver-- and maybe a passenger)! It would=
probably do well as an electric, as weight is the enemy of ev's. SO: I'=
m looking for advice from anyone who has done a conversion on a smell vehic=
le that might give a hint as to what motor, voltage, and controller combina=
tion might be good. Maybe someone who's done a 3-wheeler or larger motor=
cycle. With the original motor and gas tank out, a Berk weighs about 600 lb=
, and I would probably use lithium cells (Thundersky or similar)-- anything=
to avoid the weight of lead-acids. Even 200 lb of Li batteries would st=
ill give a finished car under 850 lb --and if I can lose a little weight
myself, the package might come in under 1000 with me on board! SO: IF i=
t were YOURS, what motor/controller combination would YOU chose and how man=
y cells? Assumes moderate range target (60-80 mi), top speed (60-80 mph)=
and no outrageous acceleration required. -Chris H, near DC
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Ultra small/light ev-- what motor-battery-controller combination?

My Gizmo was originally 993lbs with a 48V pack of 6V lead acid
batteries. It came with a D&D Motors ES-10C motor which is 6.7" dia
and about 11" long. For town running this did fine but the motor was
too small for my regular hill climb home and when I went to a 64V
LiFePO4 pack it did much better. The only problem was that while the
motor could push the Gizmo at 50mph it still got a little too hot even
with a cooling blower. The new weight was 829lbs. I have since had to
replace it with a D&D Motors ES-32 mod-15 motor which is about 1.5"
longer, all in the armature. This motor does much better and I have
gotten it to push my Gizmo at 60mph but that is still too much for
this motor. The 180=B0C snap switch in the brush holder will close after
a short run at this speed. I found that if I limit the power out of
the battery pack to about 8.5kW that the motor does fine. Based on
this I would think you would want a larger motor than mine. Maybe an
8" and likely one with double brushes.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM, L. Chris Hager
[quote]<xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> I've recently acquired a little 1959 Berkeley, a tiny English 2-seat spo=
rts car (yeah, google it- use the club name BEC to avoid new and used car d=
ealers in Berekeley CA!) that came with a 328 cc motorcycle motor (mounted =
forward of the front axles), making only about 20 hp. But it weighs in at j=
ust 680 pounds (add gas and the driver-- and maybe a passenger)! It would p=
robably do well as an electric, as weight is the enemy of ev's. SO: I'm lo=
oking for advice from anyone who has done a conversion on a smell vehicle t=
hat might give a hint as to what motor, voltage, and controller combination=
might be good. Maybe someone who's done a 3-wheeler or larger motorcycle.=
With the original motor and gas tank out, a Berk weighs about 600 lb, and =
I would probably use lithium cells (Thundersky or similar)-- anything to av=
oid the weight of lead-acids. Even 200 lb of Li batteries would still give=
a finished car under 850 lb --and if I can lose a little weight
> myself, the package might come in under 1000 with me on board! SO: IF i=
t were YOURS, what motor/controller combination would YOU chose and how man=
y cells? Assumes moderate range target (60-80 mi), top speed (60-80 mph) a=
nd no outrageous acceleration required. -Chris H, near DC
> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
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> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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-- =

David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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  #3  
Old 08-16-2012, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Ultra small/light ev-- what motor-battery-controller combination?

AC-50 ... Interesting. Great for a small light vehicle.
Chris would have a lighter pack than Harry's Bradley GT
http://evalbum.com/1000
so there would something gained there along with the regen ability.
(Please someone check my math on the following)

@60mph the pack is at high currents:

Lead-acid efficiency is @50%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery

Li-ion efficiency is @80%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery


Looking at Harry's Bradley @96V, with a (250Ah * 50% * 96V) 12kWh usable
pack capacity and getting a 40mi range.

To increase the range from 40 to 50 miles (a ratio increase of 1.25),
Chris' Li-ion pack would have to increase to a usable pack capacity of
(12kWh * 1.25) ~15kWh.

Factor in the Li-ion pack efficiency, Chris would need a total Li-ion
pack capacity of (15kWh/80%) ~19kWh.

To build a 19kWh Li-ion pack in the 96 to 115VDC range depends on what
Li-ion batteries are available that can be used. (Does this sound
right?)


{brucedp.150m.com}



-
[quote] harry henderson wrote:
> look at the AC series from high performance golf cart, i'm using the AC50
> in my 2400 lb conversion and it has plenty of power. they have smaller
> AC motors as well. they are a little more expensive than a DC but you
> get better performance to weight and better efficiently. i got mine at
>
> http://evolveelectrics.com/High%20Performance%20AC%20Motor.html
>
> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
love email again

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2012, 10:45 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Ultra small/light ev-- what motor-battery-controller combination?

AC-50 ... Interesting. Great for light vehicle. I like the regen
ability.

Chris would have a lighter pack than Harry's Bradley GT
http://evalbum.com/1000
so there would something gained there. (Please someone check my math)

@60mph the pack is at high currents:
Lead-acid efficiency is @50%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery

Li-ion efficiency is @80%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

Looking at Harry's Bradley @96V, with a (250Ah * 50% * 96V) 12kWh usable
pack capacity and getting a 40mi range.

To increase the range from 40 to 50 miles (a ratio increase of 1.25),
Chris' Li-ion pack would have to increase to a usable pack capacity of
(12kWh * 1.25) ~15kWh.

Factor in the Li-ion pack efficiency, Chris would need a total Li-ion
pack capacity of (15kWh/80%) ~19kWh.

To build a 19kWh Li-ion pack in the 96 to 115VDC range depends on what
Li-ion batteries are available that can be used.

Is this approach correct?


{brucedp.150m.com}



-
[quote] harry henderson wrote:
> look at the AC series from high performance golf cart, i'm using the AC50
> in my 2400 lb conversion and it has plenty of power. they have smaller
> AC motors as well. they are a little more expensive than a DC but you
> get better performance to weight and better efficiently. i got mine at
>
> http://evolveelectrics.com/High%20Performance%20AC%20Motor.html
>
> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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