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840K views 2K replies 238 participants last post by  kennybobby 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello,
I was wondering if I could just add an alternator to an ev and get a range extender. The alternator seems like a good idea, even an industrial one, now... I have no knowledge in this area whatsoever, so would anyone enlighten me?

{Note From The Administrators:
This has now become the official thread for all questions relating to using alternators/generators WITHOUT AN EXTERNAL POWER SOURCE. Call it free energy/perpetual motion/ over-unity or whatever you will. If you have a question about a series hybrid or range extender (with an ICE engine) then feel free to ask start a new thread, if you want to know about the other kind then please read this thread and the wiki first before asking questions. Cheers, mattW}
 
#1,287 ·
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Tools:..._to_verify_overunity_electromagnetic_machines

Gaining credibility will be the challenging part of it. Not getting assassinated by the power, coal, oil companies would be the next part (even the gov with the taxes and jobs that the dirty energy industry creates wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities that they would want you taken out.)

I'll have to get started on building my device. :)
 
#1,292 ·
Is it the red color they hate or the unpainted metal parts?
In this day and age I feel they should be more afraid of the improving price (Lower.) of Solar Photo Voltaic panels, Now what can really replace their monopoly. And is very scary to them !
 
#1,294 ·
YES, Ignorance is bliss say the ignorant for they know not what the heck they are doing.
There is a certain Perpetuality to it. They simply do not know enough about the physics of mechanical or electrical systems to understand them. We used to ask prospective Electronics students if the liked "Science Fiction" and if they did they would be easier to explain electricity to them, they had good imaginations and could visualize circuit operation and electron flow easier.
 
#1,297 ·
We used to ask prospective Electronics students if the liked "Science Fiction" and if they did they would be easier to explain electricity to them, they had good imaginations and could visualize circuit operation and electron flow easier.
Like Si Fi ? Then I should be a freaking genious!
I got hooked on science fiction in the 60’s when I was in the navy and hardly read anything else for entertainment.
 
#1,296 ·
Any of you that have had an ev on the road for any amount of time has most likely had someone suggest putting a generator on the car and charge the batteries while you drive. I am amazed every time and when I try to explain it to them they say something like how bout if you run it directly off the wheel? It’s like they think you can fool the system. I have even thought about it in the past. When I was 11 or 12 I discovered that I could spin a small pm motor the kind that are usually in battery powered toys and make a flash light bulb flicker. Try as I might I couldn’t get one motor to run another for more than an hour or so. :DJUST KIDDING! As I got more schooling I found out why I couldn’t get it to work.
 
#1,301 ·
Anybody who has ever filled a beer bong should know that the first one is bogus.

If that worked then every time you put a straw into a beverage cup it would shoot liquid out from the weight of the liquid above the inlet of the straw.

We could just drop a tube to the bottom of the ocean and tap all the hydroelectric power we could ever want from the resulting fountain!

How's that for an energy policy?;)
 
#1,302 · (Edited)
There were 50+ pages and I did not want to spend that kind of time to see if this has already been hashed out. What I am wondering is if hybrid cars are a concept that belongs here? The extra weight of another drive system being hauled around by another seems to be self defeating. I have my 21kw lithium pack sitting on a roll around shelf, and cannot imagine how much gasoline it would take to haul this around. It takes a whole lot of effort to move my shelf around in my shop. It would seem that either a gasoline system or electric system would have to weigh at least this much, and a hybrid only uses one at a time....
 
#1,303 ·
I think hybrids are a good solution for that 1-5% of driving when an EV doesn't cut it. The Prius has put most cars to shame for about a decade now, and is proof that even though it's hauling around both systems, it can do so efficiently.

Doing it right, however, is a complex beast and not really suited for DIY. That complexity also ruins one of the best things about an EV, which is simplicity. It's still too early to see how many hybrids will be on the road after 10-15 years compared to typical autos
 
#1,306 ·
I think I paid around 7500 for my metro brand new and have enjoyed roughly the same mpg as the prius for much longer than the prius has been around. I am now coming up on 200,000 miles and have only had to change the oil and tires, so I think after all these years I have found the most economical car to drive. Anyways, I still plot ideas about perpetual motion in spite of knowledge of thermal dynamics, but in my older years I just disprove them on my head. This is where I just can't get how hauling all that extra weight of a standby system could ever be offset. It seems like in rare circumstances, it could slightly improve mpg, but would not add up in the long run... and at a cost so much above the the 7500 bucks it took to do it before the perpetual motion prius!
 
#1,310 ·
I stand corrected. Not a peretual motion car, but rather a gasoline powered automobile with what I perceive to be a perpetual motion magical magnet device riding along with it. No, I don' t have any facts to back this up. Just scratching my head and seeing if anybody else thinks hybrids belong in this thread.
 
#1,313 ·
At idle, the drive efficiency (fuel in to distance out) of a conventional ICE is zero. At the torque peak and wide-open throttle, the drive efficiency is maximized. The Prius's engine/generator/motor combination lets the ICE operate closer to the torque peak and at larger throttle openings more of the time *when it's on*, and dump the mechanical power that is not required to move the car into the on-board battery. Then, you can shut off the ICE and operate on the stored energy. The net result is greater fuel efficiency even though you're lugging extra mass around, simply because the ICE is never operated at or near zero drive efficiency.
 
#1,311 ·
Hybrids are effective because the electric motor is so darn efficient. Even driving the vehicle with the combustion engine and recharging the batteries with the electric motor acting as a generator then shutting down the combustion engine for a time and running the electric motor off the charge in the batteries you just put in there, results in an overall average improvement in the mileage for the vehicle. Mostly that is because the electric generator and motor working with the pack of batteries is still over 75% efficient in converting energy into motion. But the combustion engine is only 15% effective and it wastes 85% of the energy in the liquid fuel giving it off as heat from the radiator, and as HOT exhaust fumes.And that Gents is why hybrids are effective. (But pure battery electric charged from the Electric Utility Power Plant or a windmill generator, or a solar panel is more effective in saving us from buying imported gasoline or diesel.)
 
#1,312 ·
With your example, you have replaced the transmission with an electric motor/generator. The ICE (and it's inefficiencies) remain in the system.

Mechanical transmission of power in a car is usually quoted to be around 90%. Electric motor (alone) efficiency is about the same, but a full electric system (charger, battery, controller, motor, relays, cables, connectors) is somewhat less.

The reason why hybrids are more efficient is that they store energy which is not produced by the ICE (braking), and/or make use of the ICE's idle-state to charge the battery.

Your proposed explanation would suggest, for example when a Chevy Volt has finished its electric-only range and the ICE switches on, that the car will from that moment on deliver significantly better MPG than if it were running with direct connection between ICE and wheels. This is simply not the case (45mpg?).

Chris
 
#1,314 ·
What were you smoking? re-read my comment. the combustion motor charges up the battery as it is driving the car at the same time. then the electric motor drives the car with the combustion motor off, or both drive the car under large load like mountain climbing and the combustion engine can be "Down-sized" for lesser fuel consumption. The Diesel/electric train locomotive is an engine with an electric transmission, not like a hybrid car.
 
#1,315 ·
What were you smoking? re-read my comment. the combustion motor charges up the battery as it is driving the car at the same time. then the electric motor drives the car with the combustion motor off, or both drive the car under large load like mountain climbing and the combustion engine can be "Down-sized" for lesser fuel consumption.
This is what is known as a "parallel hybrid". (e.g. Prius or Honda Insight)

The Diesel/electric train locomotive is an engine with an electric transmission, not like a hybrid car.
This is what is known as a "series hybrid". (e.g. Chevy Volt)

Both systems can be found implemented in mass-produced hybrids.

At idle, the drive efficiency (fuel in to distance out) of a conventional ICE is zero.
Given that fuel is being consumed to do zero work, agreed.

At the torque peak and wide-open throttle, the drive efficiency is maximized.
It isn't always the case that maximum efficiency is found at the torque peak in an ICE.

Chris
 
#1,317 ·
If all of the motive force in a hybrid comes from the gas tank at some point, does that mean that on a steady highway cruise a hybrid cant possibly get any better avg fuel economy than the gas engine powering it? That is the way I understand it. I might be missing something.

My uncle rented a prius and drove 2000+ highway miles averaging about 50mpg. Makes me wonder why toyota wouldnt offer the same motor without the electric drive in a small cheap aero car targeted at highway commuters. Seems to me it would get the same fuel economy as a prius on the highway and just be slow in the city.
 
#1,318 ·
Yes, on a steady highway cruise my Toyota Highlander Hybrid got the same mpg as a regular Highlander. In either case the technique of drafting 18 wheelers can produce dramatic results on the highway, for those that survived such techniques LOL.

Most of my driving was
 
#1,319 ·
Dan, I think you have it right as far as it all boils down to what you put in the tank. The ICE engine would do better than the hybrid configuration if it was not hauling around the extra weight. If you can't put a pedal powered generator on a bicycle and get more, then you can't put one on a car. The only thing you get out of a hybrid is the ability to capture braking energy and the ability to not burn fuel at a red light. While this saves some fuel, you have to pay a penalty for carrying extra weight. We have had cars that get 50+ mpg without being hybrid, but that cost much less. We must also note that the only Prius that is actually getting 50+ mpg, is the jackass that is going 55 in the left lane. You can get about 30% improvement on any car by driving a certain way, and using a scangauge fuel computer inside.
 
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