[manic_monkey]

Originally Posted by weelliott

But even in a Bose-Einstein cloud the laws of energy conservation still apply. And creating one takes a lot of energy. When you are pumping heat out of a system and trying to get it within millionths of a degree from absolute zero, or whatever they are now approaching, it is hard to get the heat out faster than it goes in without using tons of energy.

Last I heard, the laws of conservation of energy even apply in quantum mechanics. I'm assuming that I would have heard if things had been proven otherwise.

true. although still doesnt explain the possibility of room temperature superconducting material creating Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered). If a room temperature superconducting material is found, wont that affect the laws of conservation of energy. Or would the laws of conservation of energy prevent any such superconducter existing?

on a side note (I am genuinely curious about this, i rarely get to talk to physicists), if we imagine two particles that are entangled and seperated. then we use energy to alter the spin of one particle, the other should alter its spin accordingly. my question is, where does the energy come from for that?

[weelliott]

Originally Posted by manic_monkey

true. although still doesnt explain the possibility of room temperature superconducting material creating Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered). If a room temperature superconducting material is found, wont that affect the laws of conservation of energy. Or would the laws of conservation of energy prevent any such superconducter existing?

on a side note (I am genuinely curious about this, i rarely get to talk to physicists), if we imagine two particles that are entangled and seperated. then we use energy to alter the spin of one particle, the other should alter its spin accordingly. my question is, where does the energy come from for that?

I honestly don't know if the laws of conservation of energy prevent room-temperature super conductors. I don't see why they would. Even if it were to be found, I don't see how that would enable Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered).

Superconductors are just really low resistance. The efficeincy of an electric motor would be increased if superconductors were used, but even though the flow of juice isn't being resisted by the resistance of the wire any more, it would still correspond to the magnetic field that is acting on it or it is creating. In short, with superconductors, that electricity to motion energy change would become more efficient, but it would never become over 100% efficient, and there are still many more ways that energy would be lost. If you were to use superconductors and also get rid of all friction, Rolling Resistance, all air resistance, any material deformation that causes heat or sound, and all that other stuff, then you could in theory operate at 100% efficiency, but that would still just conserve the energy in the system. It would just keep you going if you were on a level surface. It would be hard to breathe in that absolute vacuum though.

[frodus]

Originally Posted by weelliott

It would be hard to breathe in that absolute vacuum though.

hehe

I was gonna mention vaccuums, but thats the reason I didn't.... pretty much not gonna happen with a vehicle.

[Walkeer]

Originally Posted by manic_monkey

wouldnt a room temperature superconductor be usable to create Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered)?. have you ever seen magnetic discs rotating above superconductors as their own magnetic field is reflected? (couldnt think of the proper word, sorry) off.

Magnet levitating above superconductor is no Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered), because it generates no energy, it just sits there and thats all. No difference betwen this and you sitting on the chair. do not mistake force with energy, because Energy = Force * distance in vectors.

Originally Posted by weelliott

I honestly don't know if the laws of conservation of energy prevent room-temperature super conductors. I don't see why they would. Even if it were to be found, I don't see how that would enable Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered).

Superconductors are just really low resistance. The efficeincy of an electric motor would be increased if superconductors were used, but even though the flow of juice isn't being resisted by the resistance of the wire any more, it would still correspond to the magnetic field that is acting on it or it is creating. In short, with superconductors, that electricity to motion energy change would become more efficient, but it would never become over 100% efficient, and there are still many more ways that energy would be lost. If you were to use superconductors and also get rid of all friction, rolling resistance, all air resistance, any material deformation that causes heat or sound, and all that other stuff, then you could in theory operate at 100% efficiency, but that would still just conserve the energy in the system. It would just keep you going if you were on a level surface. It would be hard to breathe in that absolute vacuum though.

In fact, superconductors have exactly zero resistance, not really low. But it has nothing to do with Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered).

[Phyber Optik]

I put a wind generator and a large electric fan on a sailboat and can sail forever in zero wind conditions.

[manic_monkey]

thank you for your replies on superconductors. i can see where i was getting mistaken. i had seen all the videos on discs with multiple magnets spinning above a superconductor, but upon further research i see that the disc has to be set spinning in the first place, and merely maintains the energy given to it. so with the normal losses mentioned, its not gonna be much use, except for energy storage.

[Persanity]

Like I said, Im not here to fight or argue with anybody. Id rather have a nice logical discussion with precise answers as to why something won't woprk rather then a big ole catch all like "Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) is impossible". In my mind I am not after perpetual motiom. I just want to design a highly effecient electric generator into the hub of my front wheel to recapture electric energy. My motor supports regen yes but my controller doesnt and I cant afford a different controller right now. I may not have a degree in EE but I am far from stupid and just cause I cant explain with a formula and equations how something works doesnt mean I dont know how it works. Frodus Im sorry if I offended you when I said you were being an asshole but I felt that you were being rude/attacking my ideas. You may answer questions like this all the time but I never had asked before so I dont like all the angre from past expierences getting thrust upon me. Now going back to the whole shaker flashlight thing... If I mount a rod on my front wheel that will move up and down as the wheel spins, kind of like old school train wheels, and have a neodymium magnet on the end that is about the size of a motorcycle piston and had that travel through a spool of copper wire on the outside of the tube and the rod and magnet are moving on the inside. Basicly a giant shake flashlight that you don't shake and is powered by the motion of the wheel. What do you think of that design? What are the holes in this one?

[Walkeer]

Originally Posted by Persanity

Like I said, Im not here to fight or argue with anybody. Id rather have a nice logical discussion with precise answers as to why something won't woprk rather then a big ole catch all like "Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) is impossible".

ok, but the problem is, your previous proposals actually WERE Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered)...

Originally Posted by Persanity

In my mind I am not after perpetual motiom. I just want to design a highly effecient electric generator into the hub of my front wheel to recapture electric energy.

if used as brake, I have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by Persanity

If I mount a rod on my front wheel that will move up and down as the wheel spins, kind of like old school train wheels, and have a neodymium magnet on the end that is about the size of a motorcycle piston and had that travel through a spool of copper wire on the outside of the tube and the rod and magnet are moving on the inside. Basicly a giant shake flashlight that you don't shake and is powered by the motion of the wheel. What do you think of that design? What are the holes in this one?

again, for braking, why not. If you want to use it all the time the bike is moving, that is really stupid idea, because when it generates power, at least the same power is substracted from the moving energy of your bike - it will slow it down like brakes. It could work if it would generate more power than it would substract from moving energy, but that would mean it has bigger efficiency than 100% and that is definition of Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) - which doesnt work.

[Telco]

Originally Posted by Persanity

Now going back to the whole shaker flashlight thing... If I mount a rod on my front wheel that will move up and down as the wheel spins, kind of like old school train wheels, and have a neodymium magnet on the end that is about the size of a motorcycle piston and had that travel through a spool of copper wire on the outside of the tube and the rod and magnet are moving on the inside. Basicly a giant shake flashlight that you don't shake and is powered by the motion of the wheel. What do you think of that design? What are the holes in this one?

You seem fascinated by the shaker flashlight. But, the wheel thing won't work either. Generating electricity is not free, it takes effort to push electrons and that effort is seen as resistance to movement. If you put something on the wheel that generates electricity, regardless of the method used to move the magnet, you are putting resistance to movement into the system. In fact, this method is worse because you are adding in a mechanical conversion, from roundyround to up and down. This conversion will also take energy to make.

All is not lost though, because your idea does have some merit. Instead of looking at the spinning wheel as the source of motion, look at the forks. The motorcycle forks are just a big set of shock absorbers, which keep the wheel planted to the pavement while isolating the rider from the bumps in the road. There is a considerable amount of up and down motion being damped here, and the energy generated by this damping is converted to heat in the shock absorber fluid. And, this is exactly the type of motion used by the shaker flashlight to generate power. This would not be generating free energy aka Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered), it would be recovering energy that is currently 100 percent wasted, without affecting forward motion in any way.

So, if you were to look at replacing the lower tube of the shocks with powerful magnets, and replacing the upper tube with an assembly that lets you put coils around it, you could generate power this way. Course, you'd still need a way to both isolate the rider from road bumps and keep the wheel planted to the pavement. No idea if a powerful enough magnet would provide enough shock absorption through motion or not.

I was actually looking at something along these lines to replace the 4 shock absorbers found on a car, but unfortunately I don't have what it takes to make something like this.

[LeTank]

I would like to add nothing is impossible when it comes to finding an alternative energy source to replentish your Amps being used.
Even little things such as this can help.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo..._Rod_Generator

It may need to be larger, but if someone lives in Japan or the Philippines where you can either get one from the company that produces them or get the details from the inventor himself how to build it.
His website:http://www.freewebs.com/narfschwartz/

Anyway, I believe in finding the right combination of things can help make up the difference in Amps used, therefore extending range.