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  #21  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:25 PM
popeye2008 popeye2008 is offline
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

Newbie here but wanting to learn so here goes. Probable been talked about before but couldn't we hook up a modified alternator (with magnets) or very small generator to a dual shaft DC traction motor and have the output to the batteries controlled via a electrically controlled disconnect or maybe an electrically controlled clutch like that on a AC compressor between the generator and the DC. traction motor. The generator could be activated by the brake switch and/or electronically, say when the speed of the vehicle was above a certain speed and no juice was being sent to the traction motor? I've read that regen is difficult but not impossible with DC setups this would be a poor mans version, if you will, of regen. Well just some thoughts, curious of what others with knowledge might think.

Thanks
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2008, 04:51 PM
3dplane 3dplane is offline
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

popeye2008!
Welcome! Regen is only challenging with series wound dc motors because of the optimum brush timing.If its advanced to be a "good" motor it will likely not be a great generator. Other types of motors (sepex,pm,ac) don't have an issue if their controller is setup for regen.(to my knowledge)Your idea would work no doubt,if someone wants to go through the work involved.(for regen) Barna
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2008, 05:20 PM
3dplane 3dplane is offline
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

Norm!
Could you explain that experiment with the magnets in detail(instead of one holds up the other).If you do I'm willing to test it for you.I happen to have a few neodymium magnets of various sizes laying around (from motor and generator building experiments) and been playing with them maybe a little more than I should,but I can say as much as when you hold two of the larger ones in your fist (one in each hand) and you move your hands close if they are facing to repell one will turn around in your fist in an eye blink unless you are godzilla.This is in response to your comparison with a relay or transistor.Like I said I'm open for testing.If you google "museum of unworkable devices" and scroll down to magnet motors all the pictures you see will make you go why didn't I think of that? then read the explanations and it will(should) make sense why they don't work.Barna
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2008, 07:24 PM
Walkeer Walkeer is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momono View Post
Speaking of making microscopic distinct universes...

I'm agreeing with everything you're saying, and I don't know why we're arguing at this point. Like I said, magnets are nothing magical, they're just constant producers of a certain amount of force. Force can be used to create energy or electricity, and electricity can be converted back to force. It's nothing new, in fact it's all the same principles that go into electric motors and generators today. The only difference is some clever re-engineering of the geometry to turn it into something that would be as if you were holding those magnets close together, and you won't deny that that force exists. As you said, magnetic force becomes electricity and electricity becomes magnetic force, so a circuit can logically mediate that same force between the magnets and put it to work (with losses of course, but I've acknowledged that). Once again I'm not going over 100% - 100% would be the maximum magnet force available and you literally couldn't go higher than that. Again again, I'm not shooting for over-unity, perpetual motion or anything, not snatching atoms out of thin air, just taking another look at how we're using these wonderful things called magnets.
I have to disagree with you... the problem is that your "clever re-engineering of the geometry" isnt even teoretically possible....because if it would, it would be system that makes energy from nothing, which is impossible. I guess you have read some amazing websites or watched some fakes videos....internet is full of this s***t. Forget it, it is nonsense. If it could be really possible, it would have the deepest impact on all known physics and it would literally prohibits existing universe as we know it. Realize that energy = mass...system that makes energy from nothing creates mass...this is wierd, isnt it.
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2008, 09:02 AM
weelliott weelliott is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelealexander1991 View Post
What if you lock the wind generator when the batteries are already full??
The answer would be a computer controlling he charge of the batteries and constantly enabling and disabling the turbine which could fit on the sides of the car or on the low part of the front bumper.
Just a thught, but then the answer is a generator just does not work.
Thank you.
Then in addition to havnig the wind generator create aerodynamic drag when it is working, you would have the aerodynamic drag of the wind generator even when it is not giving you energy.

Even if it were always sending electricity to the bank of batteries, the aero drag woudl always be greater than the energy it gives. The aero drag must be overcome by the motor, so you will be putting more energy into the motor than you'll get from the batteries.

Additionally, a wind generator locked so that it won't rotate actually creates more drag than one not locked in place. So lockign it would just create more drag, and give you no 'free' electricity to show for it.
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2008, 10:13 AM
ngrimm ngrimm is offline
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

Just for general info, I stopped and looked at the wind generators near Medicine Bow Wyoming back in the 80's. They had blades that were 300 feet long and computer controlled pitch of the blades to keep them rotating at a constant speed to generate 60 cycle current. The blades pitch was turned to be vertical to the wind if it exceeded 90 mph. Pretty impressive to see football field length propeller like blades going thump thump thump as they turned. Norm
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2008, 08:35 PM
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mattW mattW is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

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Originally Posted by momono View Post
First of all those scientists didn't create that universe, they just put some helium in a vacuum, i'm taking about making your own matter out of nothing .

Quote:
Originally Posted by momono View Post
I'm agreeing with everything you're saying, and I don't know why we're arguing at this point. Like I said, magnets are nothing magical, they're just constant producers of a certain amount of force. Force can be used to create energy or electricity, and electricity can be converted back to force.
The important distinction I am trying to make is that forces can't create energy or visa versa, forces can only change energy from one form to another. This is a very important distinction. While magnets can go on CONVERTING energy from electrical to mechanical all day long the force doesn't actually create any new energy. The same is true with a generator as well, all it is doing is converting one form of energy to another. You can't turn the constant force of a magnet into energy.

You can think of it like money (electrical) and commodities (mechanical) being two different types of wealth (energy). The magnetic force is like the shop keeper that sells you goods in exchange for your money. You are just as wealthy (i.e. you have the same amount of energy) it is just in a different form. The universe is really good at keeping its books so you never get more change than you deserve.

The situation gets worse when the shop-keeper takes his cut of your wealth (energy lost as heat) so for every transaction you lose a little bit of wealth. The more energy transfers the more energy is lost so its better to go without the extra generator unless you only use it for regen.

Hope that clears it up a little.
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If I was giving a kWh for every suggested idea of perpetual motion I read, I would probably ironically be able to travel perpetually...
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2008, 08:43 PM
momono momono is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Look guys, what I'm proposing isn't that crazy. We know that magnets are a source of a constant amount of measurable force or energy, whatever you want to call it. The energy wouldn't be coming from nowhere, it would be coming from the magnets. The big difference is, the circuit would be geared to harness that energy instead of pitting its finite force in battery power against it. Regardless of what vocabulary you want to use, there is force there, a constant amount of force or energy, that can be used for something, just like a battery except it doesn't run down. There just has to be a better way of doing it all than what's been done for so long. After a century of runtime, I think some of the basic ideas behind electric motor systems could stand to be rethought along a few lines, that's all. But once again, it's not coming from nowhere, it's not infinite, and I didn't get the idea from the bloody internet. So far this is all from my head and the discussions I've had with others here and other places...
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2008, 09:14 PM
joseph3354 joseph3354 is offline
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you,everybody told edison he was nuts..and they all just KNEW that tesla was nuts..so by all means...soldier on.arguing the possiblities wont help.only the completed project will...just another insignificant opinion.
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2008, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

The important thing I'm trying to tell you is that in physics force and energy are two related but separate concepts. Force is measured in newtons, energy in Watt hours or Joules. They are not equivalent or exchangeable. It is not a matter of the name we put on it, there is a physical difference. The only energy you can get from a magnet is the same energy you bring into the system. I can see where you are coming from in thinking that a magnet gives a constant force therefore we should get constant energy from it, but that is only because you are confusing force and energy. All force does is transfer energy form one type to another. I don't want to keep arguing for arguments sake but this comes up a lot so it is worth resolving. Just do a thought experiment where force and energy are separate things and you will see what I mean.
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