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Default Clutch Vs Clutchless

Whether you choose to leave the clutch in place on an EV is purely a personal choice. There are pro's and cons to each method such as; "with a clutch I can change gear faster if I have an emergency but it was complicated to set up correctly." or "without a clutch I save 25 pounds from my EV which allows me to put more batteries in and stay under my cars max weight, but it takes me twice as long to change gear".
You have to consider your preferences and decide whether you go clutchless or not.

Going clutchless on an EV means, simply that. Hooking the motor "directly" to the gearbox without a clutch. In this situation an adapter is normally made from an old clutch plate that hooks the motor shaft solidly to the gearbox input shaft with no way to dis-engage it. You remove the WHOLE clutch assembly. None of it is used. Not the flywheel , the peddle, nothing!!
You can do this because In a modern manual transmission there are things called syncro’s in between each gear. Their job is to mesh together (there's probably a better term) before the gears do. As they come together, they match speeds and in doing so bring the gears to the correct speed for "crunch" free meshing before the gears come into contact.

When you want to change gear it is made possible by the fact that an electric motor has virtually no mass(compared to an ICE motor). This allows the syncro's in the gearbox to match the internal gear speeds reasonably quickly, which allows the gear to be selected. To change gear you just take your foot off the gas and slip the leaver into neutral. You then GENTLY & SLOWLY introduce the gear leaver to the gear you want to select. The syncro's will match the gear speeds and you will "FEEL" the gears mesh and the leaver will sort of "fall" into place. Then you put your foot back on the gas.

This may sound complicated but it can be done easily with practice and it only takes only a second or two longer than changing with a clutch. The important thing is to remember NOT TO RUSH IT!!

You can actually do it with SOME normal ICE cars, but it takes a lot more concentration because you have to use the gas peddle to balance the motor speed to the gearbox speed. It's harder because the ICE motor has far too much mass for the syncro's to overcome and they can't match the speeds. The clutch helps out here by removing the motor mass from the equation so the syncro's can do their job with only the mass of the clutch plate to deal with.
An electric motor has somewhat more mass than a clutch plate, that is why you can't shift as fast when you go clutchless in an EV.

Here is a description of how to make a clutchless motor coupler: http://www.electric-lemon.com/?q=node/213
It's simple and effective.


Contributors: DVR, Bottomfeeder
Created by DVR, 05-26-2008 at 02:48 AM
Last edited by DVR, 09-20-2008 at 08:15 AM
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

Thanks for this great explanation! I have a question though -- are there any special issues with an AC system going clutchless? Would it affect regen?
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

In short, no, there's no difference between AC & DC as far as clutchless goes and it should not affect regen at all.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailfish11 View Post
Thanks for this great explanation! I have a question though -- are there any special issues with an AC system going clutchless? Would it affect regen?
If you have off-throttle regen (often included to simulate engine braking) it needs to be turned off when you want to shift. If even mild regen is happening the syncros will not be able to do their job and it should be difficult (and damaging) to pull the transmission out of gear.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

Hm that is wery bad Now a Q? I will use Altrax AXE 7245 what kind of regen dhoes it has ?

Tanx
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

The other consideration that is rarely mentioned is that retaining the clutch allows small amounts of misalignment without damage.

A completely solid coupler, the slightest misalignment will cause tiny flex with each revolution and eventually break something... especially if you have welded something together and not hardened it afterward.

If you go clutchless, SOME couplers have spirals, or plates, or rubber bumpers designed to handle some mis-alignment. The rubber ones are generally bad news at high torque. The metal plates work well, but add back almost as much weight as you take out with the clutch.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

Some clutchless couplers are built from the sprung center of a clutch disc. These will allow slight motion, essentially like the stock clutch assembly.

On most transmissions and transaxles the pilot bearing part of the input shaft should still be supported. A pilot bushing is not required because it will not rotate relative to the motor shaft, but often the transmission depends on that support for alignment. The spline fit is not tight enough to provide the proper support.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

Great Info! This should be a sticky!
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

After many years of designing both clutch and clutchless adapters it has to be the choice of the builder. Some car tranny's work better than others as a clutcless. Having said that, I find that a clutchless design is better with a coupler as small as possible in diameter to avoid a out of balance as some shafts vary a little in diameter. About 2 3/4" is ideal without the clutch springs. Most splines have enough slop for a very very small alignment problem. Here is a few pictures of a coupler for the VW.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF0003 (6).jpg (93.2 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0001 (8).jpg (96.2 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0002 (7).jpg (94.2 KB, 42 views)
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Clutch Vs Clutchless

here is a coupler for a clutchless VW using the disk springs (not recommended). Too much weight and mass for a motor that may spin up to 8000rpm like the AC-50.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF0003 (5).jpg (97.2 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0004 (4).jpg (97.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0001 (6).jpg (92.5 KB, 36 views)
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