Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20. - DIY Electric Car Forums
Go Back  

DIY Electric Car Forums > EV Conversions and Builds > All EV Conversions and Builds

Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-20-2016, 06:53 PM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

Switching from current equipment:

Active fan cooled ME1003 motor, SPM-72650 controller (overkill)

ME1003 is a 200A continuous motor @ ~72v, 250-275A fan cooled. Controller capable of ~450A 72v continuous and 90v peak.





Switching to:

AC-20 motor, Curtis 1238-7601 controller (used at a good price)


650A A/C controller, 96v nominal & 130v peak. Continuous rating is low (<200A) while no external heat-sinking is applied, but I have a chill plate and will be doing liquid cooling.

Motor is "50 hp" peak, "10 hp" continuous on the name plate. Does 8000+ rpm. Will be externally fan cooling this one like the ME1003. Will start off running both setups at the same 74v nominal voltage.

This is going to be a good comparison between the two.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 02-20-2016, 07:01 PM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

Motor has same bolt pattern, shaft size, and keyway. It is a direct swap.


First serious problem encountered:

Having massive problems removing the coupler on the old motor. I got it on originally by cooking it in the oven to expand it, then hammering it on. I have removed the 2 set screws, but it will not budge:





I have tried:

General pulling with generic tools. Heating with a heat gun. Massive 3 foot pry bar (risking the front bearing), and nothing. Not budging at all.

A gear puller doesn't have a spot to anchor in. The shaft is threaded, so I'm thinking about trying to just lock the shaft in place and screwing in a long bolt deep past the coupler with a hardened/wide washer to push itself out. That's my last option at this point, as I am fresh out of ideas. I knew it would be a pain in the ass to get this off if the time came to do so, but this is ridiculous.

Last edited by Jayls5; 02-20-2016 at 07:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-20-2016, 07:34 PM
BWA BWA is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 106
BWA is on a distinguished road
Unhappy Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

If that is a heat shrunk, pounded on fit, you will be very lucky if you get it off without having to cut it off.

Dissimilar metals of Aluminum/Steel, will literally weld themselves together at a molecular level when assembled like that.

Maybe you can just buy the Aluminum part of the adaptor........
Reply With Quote
 
  #4  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:20 PM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWA View Post
If that is a heat shrunk, pounded on fit, you will be very lucky if you get it off without having to cut it off.

Dissimilar metals of Aluminum/Steel, will literally weld themselves together at a molecular level when assembled like that.

Maybe you can just buy the Aluminum part of the adaptor........
I would have already given up on the coupler, but I can't even get off the adapter plate as-is...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-20-2016, 09:14 PM
BWA BWA is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 106
BWA is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. If you can't get the coupler off, you can't get the adapter off, hole isn't big enough.

OK, what I would try, is, take off the clutch plate/spline assembly, get an Oxy Acetylene torch, with a medium brazing tip, and, heat that hub thingamy really hot, as fast as you can (without melting stuff). Have a couple of people ready with a couple of really good pry bars.

There will be enough heat sink with the mass of the motor and adapter, that, you shouldn't damage the motor, so long as you don't play the flame directly on any part of the motor.

If that doesn't do it, you'll have to find some way of cutting it off.....

Good luck with it......
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:54 PM
jwiger jwiger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 274
jwiger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

I recommend finding a solid puller that will fit in there and can apply some pressure before you even hit it with heat. perhaps make your own with a few pieces of bar stock with holes in the ends to run bolts through. like little bridges. Put some good pressure on it, then put some heat on it. you'll get it to move a little at a time. You may have to reset twenty times, but with heat and pressure, you'll get it apart.
__________________
James Wiger
'85 Mustang Coupe, converting to full electric
'13 C-MAX Energi PHEV
'05 PSD, Silver, SCLW, Torqshift, 4x4
'65 New Yorker, white, 4dr.ht., 400k original miles
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:34 AM
Vanquizor Vanquizor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 181
Vanquizor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

I'm not sure why you couldn't get insane pressure with a good sized 3 jaw puller and a spacer down the center to press against the end of the motor shaft. Once you've got it loaded real good run a torch around the base of the hub till it pops.

Also you appear to have a bit of a gap between the hub and the adapter so you might be able to use a bearing splitter as well.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-25-2016, 01:51 PM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

I realized I probably needed a mapp gas torch, hydraulic gear puller, and some BP blaster if I had a chance of getting it off. I had none of that, so I hit up my local auto shop. They agreed to do it for the cost of an hour of shop time, which is less than the cost of tools I would have needed; we'll see if they can pull it off.

In the meantime, I removed the old controller and contactor from the box. No mounting position really worked that well for the new controller and cooling block, so I'm relocating it outside the box. This also eliminates the chance of a disastrous leak in a box full of batteries.

Nothing really looks "good" with any of the layouts, but I'm slowly settling with just lying it flat. I'm using aluminum angle bar for maximum rigidity and minimal weight. Mock up:




Here's the old used AC-20. Bearings spin a lot easier on brushless vs the ME1003, but that makes sense:


And I discovered an old dynograph from the motorcycle it was on previously on a 118v pack:


That's what I should be working with if I'm willing to add more LIPO packs in series... which my battery box now has room for since the old controller is out.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-27-2016, 06:15 AM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

Seems there were two different common aftermarket chill plates for the 1238 Curtis controllers. One had ports out the side, and the other goes out the back. The one out the back is what made the mounting on a flat surface more difficult; the protruding coolant fittings prevent a flush mount while using the standard mounting holes. So, it was either add spacers and longer nuts/bolts or just not mount on a flat surface at all. I chose the latter.




I previously used a 72v rated fuse, but I plan on changing it out. I'm trying to find a cheap fuse holder for the Bussmann fuse I have. It's so bulky in the center that I can't mount it flush to any of the terminals of my maintenance switch or new contactor. Does anyone know of a cheap fuse holder I can use with simple screw mounts?

It's a JJN-400 fuse, by Bussmann. It's "400A" and able to do higher voltage for when I decide to add more batteries in series. I was a bit wary of a "400A" fuse being on a water cooled controller seeing 650A for unknown lengths of time.

I found the datasheet: https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/4TWP6_1.pdf

I'm not the best at reading logarithmic graphs. Does it say it would handle 650A for nearly 200 seconds?? 400A for 300 seconds? Am I to assume it simply won't blow at all in the 350A continuous range?

(I'm still waiting back on the shop to finally get around to pulling the coupler off the old motor. This was a "work at your leisure" agreement)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-03-2016, 08:19 PM
Jayls5 Jayls5 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 209
Jayls5 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Motor & Controller swap thread: ME1003 to AC-20.

The shop finally got the coupler off! Picked it up today.

I originally stated that it should be a direct swap between the ME1003 and the AC-20. Well, it's almost the same.

First big difference: The mounting bolt hole depth is more shallow on the AC-20 than the ME1003. The local hardware store didn't have the same style bolt at all, so I was forced to dremel them shorter.



Next difference... the AC-20 has about a quarter inch more shaft length than the ME1003, and the ME1003 was already at the shaft length limit. I had to cut it shorter.





Hammered the coupler in place and secured the key with the set screws. I was really hoping this one would go on without requiring heat:



Finally bolted on!



The old motor sits in the background. There's about a 20-25 pound difference.

I rented a programmer for the controller... I'll be finishing up the final hard wiring tomorrow. My brakes are too sporadic in feel (despite removing all air from the lines) to use a pressure transducer for regen input. I think I'm just going to use a separate cheap hall foot pedal for that where the clutch would be, since mine is clutchless.

I've had so many annoying problems with the old VW transmission going into reverse instead of 2nd that I might just finally use the controller's reverse motor direction and position the reverse lockout shifter plate to completely bypass it.

Last edited by Jayls5; 03-03-2016 at 08:25 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Share or Bookmark this

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
Support DIY Electric Car
Sponsors

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger