SSE 3 seat performance custom build - DIY Electric Car Forums
Go Back  

DIY Electric Car Forums > EV Conversions and Builds > All EV Conversions and Builds

Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2017, 10:24 AM
dain254 dain254 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
dain254 is on a distinguished road
Default SSE 3 seat performance custom build

I haven't conjured a name for this build yet, but I did a little design work this weekend working on the layout. I'm planning to build a 4-wheeled ariel atom type machine with borrowed seating layout from a McLaren F1. The idea is that I could potentially sell completed vehicles, kits, or plans!

As for chassis, the front end will be based heavily on Miata - the prototype will utilized everything from wheel to wheel including the K-member, much like the SSE CozE that I've already completed.

Power and driveline, I will create a trailing link type suspension (not shown in the model yet) that will hold the motor and single chain reduction to the rear on each side, which may eventually be replaced by belts... I wanted to eliminate the CV's due to efforts of minimizing losses wherever possible. I'm planning to use a motenergy ME1507 to drive each rear wheel and a Kelly 96601 controller to feed power along with a pair of 4kwh Chevrolet Volt modules for energy storage. For simplicity of designing I plan on using seperate charging and Battery Management Systems.

Peak Power should be around 150hp... judging by the weight of the SSE CozE I've already built I believe I can keep this vehicle under 1000lbs pretty easily. Should be fun! Any comments or ideas feel free to post... I also thought if I need more range I could use Tesla lithium modules that were built for Toyta Rav 4 EV's.

I looked into using a large DC brushed motor as well... it would give me the same amount of power for about the same money but would require the need for a differential whereas running two motors eliminate the need - for a 4 wheel custom built vehicle to become street legal here in Iowa it is required to have some sort of differential.

Attached are a couple quick snaps of what the design is looking like so far.



Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 02-27-2017, 03:19 PM
Duncan Duncan is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southland New Zealand
Posts: 4,419
Duncan will become famous soon enough
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Drop the dopey two motor idea and you have the basis of a nice car!
Have you thought about using a Leaf power unit in the back?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2017, 04:10 PM
ken wont ken wont is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: New England
Posts: 35
ken wont is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Drop the dopey two motor idea and you have the basis of a nice car!
If you do use two motors you really should use two motor controllers and a traction controller.
Reply With Quote
 
  #4  
Old 02-27-2017, 04:32 PM
dain254 dain254 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
dain254 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

I guess my wording above wasn't clear - this would require a pair of controllers.

I definitely don't agree with "dopey" as a word to describe the dual motor setup... it can actually be done fairly streamlined and cheap. I've already worked out discounted prices for a pair of motors and controllers I intend to use.

I have considered using a Leaf driveline, as well as a Smart, Focus, Bolt, 500e... one of the goals is to create something that is relatively repeatable, so relying on the majority of my drive to come from a salvage yard does not fit that bill. Batteries I can always pay double and source from CALB if I need to!

There is an electric MEV rocket I've seen being built on this forum that is also using a "dopey" 2 motor setup, I've seen nothing but praise to that gentleman. Sure the motors in that vehicle are connected, but they still feed a chain driven differential and CV axles, which are eliminated in my design. I'll post some more CAD snapshots as I progress... if it still seems dopey by the end I'll consider higher something else!

One cool aspect of dual motor is the ability to run 1 forward and 2 backwards, for insane donuts!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2017, 05:06 PM
Yabert's Avatar
Yabert Yabert is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 1,466
Yabert will become famous soon enough
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Nice model! I like the three seats configuration.
If I understand right, you don't have side windows... I can't wait to see the kind of mud guard you plan to protect the faces of passagers from anything comming from front wheels

Waiting for 3D CAD details of your drive system.
__________________
My Smart Fortwo high power! 57 000+ EV Km. Impulse 9, Soliton 1, chevy Volt battery
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ion-51472.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2017, 06:23 AM
dain254 dain254 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
dain254 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Thanks Yabert! The front wheels will have fenders similar to those on the "CozE" vehicle I built a couple years ago, shoudln't be a ton of debris from the wheels making it into the passengers, although the seats are really there for more novelty than anything else. I may switch back to standard 2 seat...

As for the drivetrain, I started modeling a few parts I couldn't find anywhere and laying them out. It is going to be tricky to integrate the motors into the trailing links but it looks doable. I want to keep them integrated so as the suspension moves it doesn't change the chain tension or create any torsion on it. I'm currently using chain drive for my 3 wheeler and it works perfectly for drive and regen - the motor is integrated into the rear swingarm on that design.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2017, 10:13 AM
MalcolmB's Avatar
MalcolmB MalcolmB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Posts: 561
MalcolmB is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Hi Dain,

I like the layout so far, though personally I would go with simple drive shafts from each motor to the rear wheels. I don't think there would be much difference in efficiency between CV joints and chain drive, but that's just a matter of preference.

I'm curious where you got the figure of 75 hp per motor from? The few sources I can find for the ME1507 quote 85 Nm stall torque and 6000 max rpm, which give a theoretical peak of 71 hp, but I'm not sure if you can actually use the stall torque at max speed.
__________________
Mini conversion:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ad.php?t=52461
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2017, 10:28 AM
dain254 dain254 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
dain254 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

I'm probably being optimistic at 75hp/motor... if they even do 50 or 60 it should still be fun. The efficiency in eliminating the CV joints comes from eliminating them along with the gear reduction in a differential housing... but running 2 chains I get the efficiency loss once per side, but total loss would still be similar to a single bevel gear reduction in an oil bath (differential).

I am looking into the single larger motor design again for simplicity reasons as well as being able to keep the Miata rear suspension geometry, which will save me time and effort designing my own! Since I don't want to go over 24s due to my own personal knowledge of BMS and limitations associated to that, I limit my top speed with the miata differential (4.1) to 750RPM at the wheel (so.. 55-60mph if the ME1002 does 3100RPM at 96V. I'd need around a 30" OD tire to make my top speed 70mph. It would definitely rip off the line...

I saw a cheap Azure electronics motor/transaxle/controller listed somewhere for 1500 bucks but it doesn't look like it has much power. I may end up chain driving a differential with the larger motor - we shall see!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmB View Post
Hi Dain,

I like the layout so far, though personally I would go with simple drive shafts from each motor to the rear wheels. I don't think there would be much difference in efficiency between CV joints and chain drive, but that's just a matter of preference.

I'm curious where you got the figure of 75 hp per motor from? The few sources I can find for the ME1507 quote 85 Nm stall torque and 6000 max rpm, which give a theoretical peak of 71 hp, but I'm not sure if you can actually use the stall torque at max speed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-28-2017, 03:13 PM
Duncan Duncan is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southland New Zealand
Posts: 4,419
Duncan will become famous soon enough
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Hi Dain
If you use swinging arms for your rear suspension then the tires will roll with body roll,

This is OK for a drag car but it will severely limit your cornering ability - the old minis had rear swinging arms but their rear tires didn't actually do a lot

Your model has nice wide wheels - the wider the wheel/tire the more important it is to keep it as flat with the ground as possible
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2017, 03:38 PM
dain254 dain254 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
dain254 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: SSE 3 seat performance custom build

Duncan - I am planning a type of "swinging arm" if I do not stick with Miata rear components. If I was using a rigid swingarm on each side you would definitely be correct in assuming adverse handling.

The trailing link style I'm working on requires 2 tie rods which are used for camber and toe adjustment, where the wheel is not constrained to camber with the body. I am working on my CAD model and then I think all will become clear! It is kind of a cheater way of doing a "5 link" style suspension, where a forward/backward trailing link in this design will hold my motor, shock mount, and control the thrust/drag of the tractive force. Should be cool, might be a mess
Reply With Quote
Reply

Share or Bookmark this

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
Support DIY Electric Car
Sponsors

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger