[seff]

just to say hi to everybody =)
going to Stuttgart tomorrow to visit http://www.engine-expo.com/
http://www.testing-expo.com/europe/
http://www.globalautomotivecomponent...liersexpo.com/
http://www.vehicledynamics-expo.com/
http://www.automotive-interiors-expo.com/
and two other, but somehow related expos http://www.messestuttgart.de/cms/ind...?id=127315&L=1
http://www.messestuttgart.de/cms/ind...?id=128185&L=1
any suggestion on what could be useful for this particular project are welcome. will try to prioritize suggested exhibitors and gather as much as possible for a guy from completely another planet(i.e. i am a designer not an engineer). yep, let's try not to waste this opportunity completely =)

[WheelMotor]

Originally Posted by seff

just to say hi to everybody =)
going to Stuttgart tomorrow to visit http://www.engine-expo.com/
http://www.testing-expo.com/europe/
http://www.globalautomotivecomponent...liersexpo.com/
http://www.vehicledynamics-expo.com/
http://www.automotive-interiors-expo.com/
and two other, but somehow related expos http://www.messestuttgart.de/cms/ind...?id=127315&L=1
http://www.messestuttgart.de/cms/ind...?id=128185&L=1
any suggestion on what could be useful for this particular project are welcome. will try to prioritize suggested exhibitors and gather as much as possible for a guy from completely another planet(i.e. i am a designer not an engineer). yep, let's try not to waste this opportunity completely =)

Welcome here Seff. I hope you will report us what news you found on these exhibitions concerning Wheel Motors or BLDC motors in general..

[WheelMotor]

Thanks to the kind people of JMAG who granted us a trial period to test their simulation software, I could finally test the BLDC motor within the dimensional restrains of the design.

The first results are ... encouraging.



The motor should produce about 500Nm of torque from standstill to 1000 RPM and 70 Hp. In our case with a wheel of 255x45x18 this equals 120 Km/h. The flat curve is due to the Amps limiter. Knowing that a Lamborghini Gallardo has a Max Torque of 510 Nm ... If we could make a car with 2 times 500 Nm (for 2 wheels) ... Tire shredding !

The test is however rather ruff and has to be refined but it's a start.

[JRP3]

I think you are forgetting something. A Lambo, like most cars, has gearing, which multiplies torque at the wheels. You'll have a lot less wheel torque than a Lambo and most vehicles, no shredding. Two wheels with 500NM each is the same torque as a 100NM car with a 10:1 over all first gear ratio.

[seff]

Originally Posted by JRP3

I think you are forgetting something. A Lambo, like most cars, has gearing, which multiplies torque at the wheels. You'll have a lot less wheel torque than a Lambo and most vehicles, no shredding. Two wheels with 500NM each is the same torque as a 100NM car with a 10:1 over all first gear ratio.

I guess some guys are just born to say "No".
Could you tell at least why you decided to do it here over and over again?

Do you know how to do it better?
Any constructive proposal at all?
So why bother?
Why here?

Gee

[JRP3]

Are you on crack? I posted relevant information. He will not have the torque of a Lambo as he claimed, not even close. If you can't handle the truth then you aren't really interested in building anything that works and just want to engage in mental masturbation. My whole point in this thread is to bring a dose of reality. I guess I should not have said anything, let him spend many hours and a lot of money building a wheel motor and then wonder why he has crap for torque. That would be helpful

[karlos]

Originally Posted by seff

I guess some guys are just born to say "No".
Could you tell at least why you decided to do it here over and over again?

Do you know how to do it better?
Any constructive proposal at all?
So why bother?
Why here?

Gee

Hi Seff, I like your support for Wheelmotor but JRP3 is quite correct and it is good he is contributing; he has a lot of experience and you don't want to discourage contribution to a collaborative effort as Wheelmotor gives the impression of wanting.
Wheelmotor, i think what you are doing is just great and a project like yours definitely needs the enthusiasm you have. I look forward to being updated on your progress and hope you continue in your willingness to have input from others as such a project requires a wide range of skills. Do you know yet what controllers you are aiming to use or did I miss that?

[seff]

Originally Posted by JRP3

Are you on crack? I posted relevant information. He will not have the torque of a Lambo as he claimed, not even close. If you can't handle the truth then you aren't really interested in building anything that works and just want to engage in mental masturbation. My whole point in this thread is to bring a dose of reality. I guess I should not have said anything, let him spend many hours and a lot of money building a wheel motor and then wonder why he has crap for torque. That would be helpful

Don't you see, that is exactly my point. Instead of talking about the Torque curve you talk about your vision of reality(i.e. Lambo with a multiplication, mental masturbation etc.)
If this is crap - ok, what in your opinion is not?
What do we need?
What is real?

Or you just want to say to a WM that he needs to give up already because of the Lambo remark?

Or am I on crack?

[WheelMotor]

Waw, nice sudden controversy. Love that !
Seff, thanks for your support, I am a positive person too.

Although I usually don't like JRP3's pessimistic comments, this time he is of course right. I forgot the torque multiplication because of the gearing.

I did nothing else than optimizing, since my last post. And there is progress !!
Nope we will not yet beat the Lambo, but we have now a nice 117 Hp 87 Kw and strong 839 Nm from 0 to 120 km/h. With 2 such WM's we will have a nice 1678 NM. And that is already half the pulling power of the Lambo at 3000 RPM. Because the Lambo motor gives less torque at lower RPM. And the Lambo has to change gears, hahaha.



A bit more serious now. If we can make an affordable wheel motor that you can simply bolt on your car and add 200 Hp to an existing IC engine car, my project is a great success. There are a lot of real world parameters that have to be kept in mind, just two:
I don't want to change anything on the car. (very big limitation)
Torque numbers are limited by realistic battery power, dimensions, weight and cost.
My aim is not to produce the biggest motor, but the most efficient and as a second parameter torque. The missing gearbox is a handicap in "good for promotion" performance, but it eliminates about 25% loss too. And this during acceleration, but also during Regenerative Braking.

I read a very interesting relevant article about Torque in cars on ElectricVehicleNews.Com In the article they speak about this article about the Audi e-tron.

Karlo, thanks for your encouraging words. The controller is not what I am focusing on, but it will need our attention later on indeed. I have not seen yet a controler that has the required Volt/Amp specs that we need. (And that I can afford)

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by seff

Don't you see, that is exactly my point. Instead of talking about the Torque curve you talk about your vision of reality(i.e. Lambo with a multiplication, mental masturbation etc.)
If this is crap - ok, what in your opinion is not?
What do we need?
What is real?

Or you just want to say to a WM that he needs to give up already because of the Lambo remark?

Or am I on crack?

I think so since what I posted is not my vision of reality, it is reality. I've never said WM should give up, but I have pointed out real obstacles that must be dealt with. I actually hope he succeeds, though I think it unlikely, but he still has to overcome the issues that I point out. There is a reason why no one has come to market with an affordable wheel motor for a car. The best wheel motor I'm aware of is Marks' Enertrac, which is for motorcycles less than 400lbs and costs $1200 without a controller. http://www.enertrac.net/index.php It's 10kwh continuous and 30kw peak. They have a dual version which is basically two motors in one, and probably twice as expensive. At one point he was working on using two motors mounted in board, not in the wheel, to drive a Miata. Haven't seen any updates on that project.