[JRP3]

Originally Posted by david85

Oh wait - I think it was joeseph3354 that was testing samples. Got mixed up.

So I guess I can stop looking around for those batteries that I don't remember buying

[david85]

Originally Posted by JRP3

So I guess I can stop looking around for those batteries that I don't remember buying

Yeah, no need to pannic on that one lol.

Have you guys looked at this yet?
http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/LiFePO4.php

Something I noticed is that the spiral wound cells are generally twice the price even if they come from the far east. If I were to get serious about them, I would probably buy a resistance wielder and save a little on the price per cell by getting the cells without the bolt stem termnals. 10-30C is certainly impressive, but it beggs the question of where you could find a motor/controller setup that could take advantage of all that power now that zilla is off the market. As it stands, the 200Ah battery would also push a warp 9" to its constant rating limit at 1C and well beyond any affordable setup at 5C.

(28.8 kw @ 1C and 144kw @ 5C, but the curtis controller would limit at 500amps so 72 kw will probably be the limit)

I guess you could go with spiral cells to get away with a smaller pack, but since it would end up costing at least as much as a larger prismatic, it just seems kinda pointless unless you wanted to drag race it.

[saab96]

The safe lithium chemistries vary a lot but people tend to fixate only on pricing and fool themselves that the quality will always be the same. Then they find out later on that the cells they got have no power or they get too hot when stressed or they quickly deteriorate. This is why so many of us have a wait and see attitude. We want to hear consistent success stories.

To me, the most promising battery technology yet is Toshiba SCIB, which is basically another take on Altair Nanosafes but with some serious volume rampup in the works. If it's actually possible to get these batteries for EVs, then it would probably work well. With the first gen batteries they are using for ebokes, you'd get lower range than LifePo4, but with much longer lifecycles so if the pack cost were the same, the cost to drive per mile would be better.

[david85]

Well, its a risk that I can afford to take, so it looks like a single battery order is still on. I still have the tests I did, and the battery passed all of them. If it holds up it will be worth it. The LiFePO4 battery is about to turn 6 years old. If there was a major fault in the design, I think we would have heard about it by now. There are several thundersky powered conversions in the works all over the world at the moment, so you should get to see some independant data fairly soon. Thundersky is also trying to market all electric transit busses, so thats another thing to keep an eye out for.

So far this is what I can figure about the quality/performance of the chinese made LiFePO4s:

All the LiFePO4 batteries made in china are tested to the same national standards (you can ask to see them or they will be listed), and many of those standards are in fact international and recognized in countries like the USA and canada. Thundersky gets the slightly higher C rating because they strap the cells to control swelling. ZH simply rates the constant C slighty lower instead. cylindrical cells have a round metal case that can naturally withstand much more pressure than a square ABS plastic case, so they consistently get the higher C ratings than the prismatics, but at a higher cost.

[Voltswagen]

David
As a businessman I would not buy them from the company who baited me and I would let them know that we here on the forum will buy from other companies as well.
Roy

[Voltswagen]

David
There is another group on these forums trying to purchase those batteries.
Was the name of the company which baited you HiPower?
I copied a portion of their latest post below.
Roy

Here is the latest that I have on battery pricing information.

IMHO, there are only two manufacturers of Lithium LiFePo4 prismatic cells (the batteries that look like blocks): Hipower and Thundersky. I have been in contact with both for some time and would like to publish my current pricing information. The pricing is not as good as other rumors that I've heard, but it's a starting point for negotiations.... meaning: dont pay more than this.

HiPower (chinabatteries.net) provided pricing at $1.35/Ah for their 160 Ah cells that I think are capable of 2C continuous discharge:

HOw are you?Have you recieved my email ?We treasure to cooperate with you,so i have taken some action to push our cooperation. One good news is ,sir ,if you place the order to us now ,we will give you a better price 1.35 USD/AH ,for the price of one 3.2v160ah cell will be 216USD.A 144V160AH pack will be 10368USD.


You see,we are producing the larger voltage pack such as 96v,144v,240v,288v,312v and 375v pack in a massed way.If you place order now ,you will get the pack very soon,much quickly than usual.

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by Voltswagen

David
There is another group on these forums trying to purchase those batteries.
Was the name of the company which baited you HiPower?

No, seiden, http://www.chinabatterycenter.com/product_1.asp?yid=53

[david85]

I wouldn't describe what happened to me as a bait and switch. The very first numbers that I recieved were indeed correct, pricing in the $0.50/wh and energy density slightly below 90 wh/kg. I was already interested and there was no need to "sweeten the deal". The mistake happened when I asked for pricing on several other batteries and only one of them turned out to be cheaper.

I now have a formal order form in hand for the 200Ah 144V battery that I originally asked for. The price is the same as it was originally.

There are precautions that we will take however, and our bank has international services that we will use for this purchase.

[RKM]

David,

Unfortunate news re the price for the 144 V x 160Ah pack. I had been expecting something like this to happen. The search or wait for sub $.40 quality lithium continues.

Good luck with your pack purchase. Please keep us informed.

Rob

[RKM]

Originally Posted by Voltswagen

David
There is another group on these forums trying to purchase those batteries.
Was the name of the company which baited you HiPower?
I copied a portion of their latest post below.
Roy

Here is the latest that I have on battery pricing information.

IMHO, there are only two manufacturers of Lithium LiFePo4 prismatic cells (the batteries that look like blocks): Hipower and Thundersky. I have been in contact with both for some time and would like to publish my current pricing information. The pricing is not as good as other rumors that I've heard, but it's a starting point for negotiations.... meaning: dont pay more than this.

HiPower (chinabatteries.net) provided pricing at $1.35/Ah for their 160 Ah cells that I think are capable of 2C continuous discharge:

HOw are you?Have you recieved my email ?We treasure to cooperate with you,so i have taken some action to push our cooperation. One good news is ,sir ,if you place the order to us now ,we will give you a better price 1.35 USD/AH ,for the price of one 3.2v160ah cell will be 216USD.A 144V160AH pack will be 10368USD.


You see,we are producing the larger voltage pack such as 96v,144v,240v,288v,312v and 375v pack in a massed way.If you place order now ,you will get the pack very soon,much quickly than usual.

Voltswagen,

With the recent fallout of David's deal for 160 Ah cells, I'm interested in what HiPower have to offer. What additional information do you have on these cells (charge/discharge rates, life cycles, density, dimensions...)? Do you think a larger volume would reduce the quoted price significantly? What about the track record of the company and product?

Thanks for posting your communication with the company. I found their site, but my Mandarin/Cantonese/?? is not what it might be. Do they have an English link?

Rob