[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by Duncan

Hi Todd

Why are you using CF?

With a wet layup CF is heavier for the same strength than S glass - and a lot more expensive!...[/

Hey Duncan. Marketing, design, and research.

S-glass doesn't have one ten-thousandth of the marketing value carbon fiber does in the general public. Even my materials specialist, engineer, partner lit up like a 5 year old on Christmas morning when I said we're going to make carbon fiber body parts, now. Just to reiterate the point, this vehicle is always first a marketing tool. Everything that has been and will be done is to support that goal. Carbon fiber is a no-brainer in that sense. Cost is subordinate to marketing potential. If we don't have enough money to do what should be done, we find a way to get it.

In designing the vehicle, carbon fiber puts me close enough to sheetmetal work, that I can actually design a similar appearance and feeling of quality in the parts and how they're connected and attached. The only thing that looks as sexy as finely finished bare metal is carbon fiber. I think the Model E is ultimately going to be finished in exposed carbon fiber bodywork, with black paint highlights. Working in it now lets me see how my designs play out in real life, real scale.

I also have some techniques I want to experiment with in carbon fiber, so rather than waste money making useless parts to test the ideas we'll make the parts we need now with it. This will also allow us to test the durability of the ideas, as the Inhaler Model E will do its initial performance testing in development parts, so they can be cut, spliced, patched, and changed, as needed.

Originally Posted by Duncan

...(because CF doesn't - wet out - as easily as glass so you end up with a higher resin ratio)

I'm not to shabby at this stuff - it's pretty darn light, and there isn't a lot of extra resin in it, for a hand lay-up. Of course, I can't match a bagged part, but I do pretty well. For all the above reasons, any weight penalty we suffered over using glass is worth it.

Originally Posted by Joey

The little guy is looking handsome in his new carbon fiber clothes. I've been watching since the days you were designing and cutting the motor mounts. I'm glad you have a team making some really impressive progress.

Thanks Joey! This has been a long time coming, and our Team is simply awesome. A couple interns from a local Arts and Design college stopped in the studio today declaring their desire to be involved. One is car crazy, and the other has composites experience. I am looking forward to the opportunity to coach, mentor, and work with, more like the crew we have now. I've also learned to bring them in slowly and weed out the hype.

[Duncan]

S-glass doesn't have one ten-thousandth of the marketing value carbon fiber does in the general public.

You are 100% correct - and I hate it - grump grump

It offends my engineering Scotsman's soul when more expensive materials are used to no structural benefit

Probably why I am a terrible salesman

[Woodsmith]

It really is looking the part, Todd, I know what you mean about CF over glass.

I do really prefer hand beaten aluminium over CF though mainly because I am so old school. CF makes me think of teens in front wheel drive Japanese cars where the amps are more powerful the the ICE.
However, the black weave really works on the tub there. What's the plan for the insides? Any strengtheners needed, or upholstery?


I am currently wondering is there are any classes here for serious sheet metal bashing to fine tune my less then serious metal bashing antics.

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by Duncan

S-glass doesn't have one ten-thousandth of the marketing value carbon fiber does in the general public.

You are 100% correct - and I hate it - grump grump

It offends my engineering Scotsman's soul when more expensive materials are used to no structural benefit

Probably why I am a terrible salesman

I should have picked up on that engineer's tone (grumping) about structural concerns and cost! We'll make up for it later, as the plans for this particular vehicle include serious, life-or-death, structural, carbon fiber applications. At least then, you'll know there's some real engineering/pratical application happening under its pretty face!

On a side note: Our Columbus siblings are planning to use a composite Indy car tub in the next Buckeye Bullet.

Originally Posted by Woodsmith

It really is looking the part, Todd, I know what you mean about CF over glass.

I do really prefer hand beaten aluminium over CF though mainly because I am so old school. CF makes me think of teens in front wheel drive Japanese cars where the amps are more powerful the the ICE.
However, the black weave really works on the tub there. What's the plan for the insides? Any strengtheners needed, or upholstery?


I am currently wondering is there are any classes here for serious sheet metal bashing to fine tune my less then serious metal bashing antics.

I actually love, love, love hand-formed aluminum skin Woody. Given my choice, that's what the Model E would have been skinned in, but it's outside my current skill set too, so I am working with what I am familiar with. I think that is a good thing though because carbon fiber actually has better marketing appeal in the circles the Model E seems to draw most - techy types. There are a lot of old school guys/gals, and hot rodders, that like it, but the high-tech types flock to it and can't seem to get enough. The more they realize how technology dependent the vehicle is the closer they get.

That's also what I was talking about - I want to duplicate the appearance of old school metal fabrication with carbon fiber. Because of its structural properties, especially when we start doing bagged and/or autoclaved parts, I can design really thin parts that appear to attach to other parts like a guy would do with sheet metal. The thin edges, the shapes, etc. With composites, things usually look thick, heavy, and plasticky.

On that note, carbon fiber is making a comeback (at least in this country) from the instant tie-in to fart canned (un)muffled imports with wavy carbon hoods. It's because of racing. Seeing an open-wheeled car bust apart and watching the driver slide around in a carbon tub, usually unscathed, gives the material the reputation it deserves. I've noticed that many of the top hot rod builders are pretty fearless about using it, and leaving some of it exposed in the finished product. These are sometimes multi-million dollar cars, that are the cream of the crop, and highly respected. They wear it proudly.

I have to go now, but I'll try to find some examples in my rather large collection of hot rod photos later...

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by Woodsmith

...What's the plan for the insides? Any strengtheners needed, or upholstery?...

I want to keep the shell down to one or two layers, and have exposed structural "ribs" on the inside. Like a steel or aluminum race car's ribs would be spot welded or riveted to the skin it supports, the Model E's carbon fiber ribs will appear to be done that way - they'll actually be bonded with structural adhesive and maybe even some soft metal rivets for kicks. The point is to capture the look and feel of old school fabrication in modern materials, so they need to look thin and delicately, precisely, formed and joined.

Upholstery will consist of hammered, embossed, and burned thick, tough, leather pads on the seat bottom and back. Elephant skin caught my attention, from seeing it online, but I haven't seen any up close and personal yet to determine whether it's really what we're looking for.

Ultimately, by the time you regain your senses from the sensation of speed and power, and realize your azz hurts and your joints ache (from being contorted), it will be time to stop and recharge anyway.

[toddshotrods]

I don't know how I forgot to post these first couple pics here, I thought I had. Anyway, it's shaping up.



Hard to believe the lumpy, bumpy, foam is now gone! Kez is a Fine Arts major, and she has been looking forward to the process of sculpting the front clip. I can't stop smiling when I walk around and see it developing. Can't wait to see it in carbon fiber...



Schism is now down on the floor with the Model E. My two kids!

[Woodsmith]

That is looking so good.

If I was closer, I'd be wanting to join in all the fun!

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by Woodsmith

That is looking so good.

If I was closer, I'd be wanting to join in all the fun!

Thanks Woody! Don't let a little pond stop you, get over here!

I wish you were buddy.

[Woodsmith]

Originally Posted by toddshotrods

Thanks Woody! Don't let a little pond stop you, get over here!

I wish you were buddy.

That would be so tempting, I could do with a low stress and enjoyable job. Now where's my passport? And what does a ticket cost?

[toddshotrods]

The field coils to convert the 11" GE to series-wound configuration were going to cost us $500 (from Warfield) and, since we have more real estate to play with in the 108" wheelbase, we just purchased a 13" series-wound motor for this project!!! It cost less, with freight, than the coils would have, and also frees my SepEx motor for use in the front drive system of Schism.

Pics coming, when we get it in the shop...