[toddshotrods]

There is a chance that aluminum chips will fly this coming weekend! I went to drop off some parts today and asked when he thought the programming might be done. He said possibly Saturday. Keep everything you can cross crossed!

I was also talking about having the blower housings cast because of how much aluminum would end up in chips cutting them. The idea didn't seem to bother him, as he made a joking reference about how it's basically the same thing as the 50lb billet we're about reduce to a 15lb part soon. I have to make a decision soon so I can figure out whether I am modeling the housing in 3D or plastic and clay.

[CroDriver]

Maybe a odd question that also has very likely already been discussed but this thread is quite long so it's hard to read everything.

For what purpose are you building this e-Rod? I don't see a record braking performance setup. For show & shine?

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by CroDriver

Maybe a odd question that also has very likely already been discussed but this thread is quite long so it's hard to read everything.

For what purpose are you building this e-Rod? I don't see a record braking performance setup. For show & shine?

Hey Cro! It's not odd at all, and the purpose of the Inhaler has been discussed countless times in this thread - but you would definitely have to have quite a bit of free time to find the answer! It has a dual purpose.

One
It is a marketing tool, which is basically "show & shine" but on a more professional level. It will be pretty someday, but being effective at selling my design work is more important.

Two
It is a race car. The fact that you don't see a record-breaking performance setup means I am doing my job as a designer. Racing, for the Inhaler, is a means of validating the design. Proof is in the pudding, so to speak. My background is in drag racing, I but decided to make autocrossing a bigger priority with this project. It's design features a short (90") wheelbase, ultra-low CG, and low polar moment - it should be like running a big go-kart through the cones. 90" is the minimum legal wheelbase for four-wheeled vehicles on sanctioned NHRA tracks in this country. I plan to run the quarter-mile as well. 911's have run low 9s and I think even high 8s with a 92" wb, and a much higher CG, so it should be perform well.

If you're referring to the single motor as not being a record-breaking performance setup - I beg to disagree. White Zombie was pretty quick with the Kostov 11" motor, and actually had some other issues that were holding the car back probably more than the motor. Ultimately, Smoke Screen was a heartbeat away from the 10s with a single 13" GE. My recipe is to run a half the weight of the Datsun, I believe a third the weight of the S10, and incorporate some other ideas I have to see how much more is left in the concept.

Most important though is the marketing aspect. When "finished" the Inhaler must have the aesthetic polish and precision of a hand-built, luxury, automobile. Every piece has to look like it was supposed to be exactly where it is. In use, it must feel like a high-end sports car (Ferrari-ish, if I dare to compare ). The package must feel complete, like it was purposefully designed to do "this". Every piece must work in perfect harmony with all the others, like it was designed to be there.

^^Now you know why this thread is so long - one particular long-winded person can't shut up!

[toddshotrods]

Now that I am not burning its cells in a dead-end job, my brain is beginning to work again. Since he said we might be ready to make chips this weekend, I have been thinking about what could go wrong. What could I have missed? What would be the worst possible outcome?

The biggest disaster would be if the mounting pattern was off and it couldn't be bolted to the motor! The problem is the mounting holes aren't just holes. The counterbores are actually contoured to highlight the bolt heads. I don't want to compromise the integrity of the design by slotting holes anyway, but in this case that would look like crap because the counterbore would be elongated - like someone stepped on it!

Of course I could always order another chunk of aluminum and start over, but time is money... I decided to do a quick paper pattern check. I created a 2D graphic from the modeling curves, had a sheet of six printed at FedEx Office (large-scale printer), and cut one out. Between translations (CAD curves, graphic image, formatting, printing) it shrunk about .0625", which is why it's not quite out to the edges of the motor, and why the bolts are not perfectly centered in the holes, but the digitized motor mount pattern appears to be spot on!

I considered doing a real DWG, or even having the other shop cut a quick wood or plastic mock-up of the motor mount section on the ShopBot, but decided that all this would be time-consuming overkill. All really needed to know was if the pattern was right. Even though it was done of the actual motor with a Faro arm, things can happen.

I've started working on a line of hot rod specific EV parts.

[AmpEater]

Originally Posted by toddshotrods

Now that I am not burning its cells in a dead-end job, my brain is beginning to work again.


I've started working on a line of hot rod specific EV parts.

Care to elaborate?

[DavidDymaxion]

I bow in your general direction, this is great stuff!

I'll agree you'll have a low CG, but is a Porsche 911 "much higher?" It has the battery on the floor, the springs (torsion bars) are at floor level, the motor is flat, the roof panel is small.

Another thought: Part of the 911 acceleration success is rearward weight bias. Without that, you actually need a higher CG to transfer weight to the rear wheels (the muscle car's technique). Opposite this is you want a low CG for cornering. The 911 is the best of both worlds, low CG and lots of weight on the rear wheels, but with the "compromise" that it takes a truly expert driver to be fast around corners with one due to oversteer tendencies.

What front/rear weight bias are you planning for the Inhaler? One nice thing about batteries is you could move some batteries for autocross vs. drag racing, and optimize the car for both.

I'm putting all my batteries at floor level, and estimate I'll move my weight bias forward about 2%. http://explodingdinosaurs.com/9electric/weight .

Originally Posted by toddshotrods

... I but decided to make autocrossing a bigger priority with this project. It's design features a short (90") wheelbase, ultra-low CG, and low polar moment - it should be like running a big go-kart through the cones. 90" is the minimum legal wheelbase for four-wheeled vehicles on sanctioned NHRA tracks in this country. I plan to run the quarter-mile as well. 911's have run low 9s and I think even high 8s with a 92" wb, and a much higher CG, so it should be perform well. ...

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion

I bow in your general direction, this is great stuff!..

Thanks! Now stand up, people are looking!

Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion

...I'll agree you'll have a low CG, but is a Porsche 911 "much higher?" It has the battery on the floor, the springs (torsion bars) are at floor level, the motor is flat, the roof panel is small.

Another thought: Part of the 911 acceleration success is rearward weight bias. Without that, you actually need a higher CG to transfer weight to the rear wheels (the muscle car's technique). Opposite this is you want a low CG for cornering. The 911 is the best of both worlds, low CG and lots of weight on the rear wheels, but with the "compromise" that it takes a truly expert driver to be fast around corners with one due to oversteer tendencies...

I do get that the 911 might have a low CG relative to other production sports cars but, out of necessity, there are still a lot of components up much higher. It's also a relative tall car. The roof may be small but it's steel, and a part of the chassis. That steel roof is nearly five feet off the ground, and carries a fair amount of glass. Wokring down you have more steel body, with structural integrity designed in, jambs for doors, deck, and hood, etc. The dash, seats, and interiors components, etc.

I know it doesn't sound like much, but in comparison, it is. The Inhaler will have a roll cage, but it will be moly, and other than then there just won't be much weight above the height of the motor. The motor is set as low in the frame as possible (approx. 4" off the ground). The body is 40lb of chopper gun 'glass now, and will be less in it's final carbon/foam composite form. I figure the carbon/foam roof skin should be about 15lbs.

Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion

...What front/rear weight bias are you planning for the Inhaler?...

It should be really close to 50/50, maybe 45/55 (f/r) at most, if I'm really off. I concentrated on centralizing the mass for low polar moment more than actual bias. It seems like the neutral bias just kind of develops naturally in a front-engine/rear-drive car as you start pulling mass in towards the center. I've noticed a lot of production cars are getting closer and closer to it. Some are even ending up with a rearward bias.

Originally Posted by DavidDymaxion

...One nice thing about batteries is you could move some batteries for autocross vs. drag racing, and optimize the car for both.

I'm putting all my batteries at floor level, and estimate I'll move my weight bias forward about 2%. http://explodingdinosaurs.com/9electric/weight .

You been peeking in my notes?! The design calls for A123s under the floor, and behind the seats. That's the normal, and ideal for autocross, set up. The triangulated, four-link, rear suspension will be completely adjustable, and I eventually want double-adjustable coil-overs at each corner. If I can't get enough transfer with these adjustments, I will be able to move the batteries back into the bed. That will place them much higher, obviously farther back, and in a position to have much more leverage to get the weight transfer started. Having more static weight directly over the tires at 0rpm, when the e-motor's torque hits, shouldn't hurt either. All that is for "if" the standard setup doesn't work.

Another reason I want the coils custom wound for my application is at 1200lbs, with an 11" motor, I may want to trade off a little bottom end torque for better performance elsewhere. I absolutely love a good holeshot, but don't want to have to run 30" tall wrinkle walls just to get off the line. I'm seeking a good all-around balance, but with neck-snapping acceleration.

Sometimes when I think about the time I have invested - just in design - for this project I just shake my head. I'm either completely nuts or onto something!

[procupine14]

Originally Posted by toddshotrods

Sometimes when I think about the time I have invested - just in design - for this project I just shake my head. I'm either completely nuts or onto something!

Well from what I have read from your thread I'm going for the latter

This is an amazing project.

[toddshotrods]

Originally Posted by AmpEater

Care to elaborate?

First adapters, mounts, etc. All the stuff that's required to begin building an electric vehicle, but more appropriate for a hot rod. It's really more a matter of where to begin than what to do.

Later down the line, I have some really "special" parts in the works. I'd tell ya more but I'd have to kill ya!

Right now, pretty much anything a person wants can be done on a custom basis. I wanted to run a few parts through to test the processes, shops, and suppliers. I think I have enough of the kinks out to formally swing the doors open soon.

I happen to know of a guy that will be receiving a couple parts as soon as the machine finishes chewing on them.

[MJ Monterey]

I agree with Procupine...