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  #1831  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
H20=CO2?
No - H2O = Greenhouse gas, makes up 98% of all greenhouse gasses.

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And yet here you are....
Yes, he DID say it is a GREAT time waster - and all of us love to waste time!

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  #1832  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by PhantomPholly View Post
I already know what I would say - nothing, because the "worst case" scenarios say that a modest 2 degree temperature rise will not have happened until I am long dead (2100). Even if I am fortunate enough to live that long, all I will see is happy Europeans and Canadians and Russian Siberians celebrating their more comfortable weather. The ratholes of the world will still be ratholes.

Thanks Karlos - I feel better about AGW today!

Feel better while you can but I think you are referring to a rather large minority who will 'benefit' and i doubt they will as the 'hoards' in their "ratholes" will want and desperately need the 'better conditions'. Food globally will be scare, there will be water wars as long ago predicted...
No Phantom, I don't think it will be a better place, every extreme you can think of will become more so it seems.
Maybe the irony is, just when they find the way to prolong life (about 30 years time according to Singularity University) life will so so much harder to live unless as always, you are one of the privileged few.
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  #1833  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

We might be reaching a tipping point. Obama has been effectively stopped from legislating any sort of cap & tax scheme - so naturally canada will follow that lead. And in a surprise turn of events at cancun, Japan has walked away from the Kyoto Protocol. Meanwhile china and india continue their relentless march into industrialization while at the same time pointing the finger at the united states.

Oh, and a new paper suggests that previous estimates of "unprecedented warming" in Antarctica have been exaggerated.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/0...s-steig-et-al/

Steve McIntyre is at it again!

I love the reference to the "one reviewer in particular"
It's not the first time a scientist has attempted to sabotage the review process to keep dissenting views out (peer reviewers do not have to reveal their identities in the final paper if they don't want to). I wonder if a transcript of that exchange will ever see the light of day. There was another one a couple of years ago that did - hilarious stuff!

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The review process unfortunately took longer than expected, primarily due to one reviewer in particular. The total number of pages dedicated by that reviewer alone – and our subsequent responses – was 88 single-spaced pages, or more than 10 times the length of the paper.
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  #1834  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

Ok , I think allot of people have at least heard of peak oil ...

But I don't think I had previously heard much about ... peak fish.



Similar concept as Peak Oil ... except it is fish instead of oil ... we are at or very near our limit of fish production ... and if we over fish to supply one year , it will have compounding effects on reducing the following years ... which oddly continues to put more pressure on more fishing ... as the supply of fish levels off ... if the demand continues to grow the short term value of more fishing will continue raise the prices ... which continues to further encourage more over fishing.



hahaha ... take that sea food lovers.
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  #1835  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by PhantomPholly View Post
Even if I am fortunate enough to live that long, all I will see is happy Europeans and Canadians and Russian Siberians celebrating their more comfortable weather. The ratholes of the world will still be ratholes.

Thanks Karlos - I feel better about AGW today!

You should talk to the Siberians who's homes and roads are sinking into the melting permafrost. They don't seem to be real happy about it for some reason. Similar things happening in sections of Canada I believe. If warming conditions also lead to droughts or floods in our food producing regions it may not be quite the party you expect. Not to mention potentially more violent storms, higher temps mean more energy in the atmosphere.
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  #1836  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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No - H2O = Greenhouse gas, makes up 98% of all greenhouse gasses.


Which of course misses the whole point. A catalyst can be a small percentage of a formula but still drives the reaction. The atmosphere may be relatively stable with 98% water, but maybe not when other greenhouse gases start to increase in volume.
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  #1837  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by david85 View Post
Oh, and a new paper suggests that previous estimates of "unprecedented warming" in Antarctica have been exaggerated.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/0...s-steig-et-al/

Steve McIntyre is at it again!
Not exactly a huge condemnation of previous data:
Quote:
Overall, we find that the Steig reconstruction overestimated the continental trends and underestimated the Peninsula – though our analysis found that the trend in West Antarctica was, indeed, statistically significant. I would hope that our paper is not seen as a repudiation of Steig’s results, but rather as an improvement. In my opinion, the Steig reconstruction was quite clever, and the general concept was sound.
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  #1838  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by karlos View Post
Feel better while you can but I think you are referring to a rather large minority who will 'benefit' and i doubt they will as the 'hoards' in their "ratholes" will want and desperately need the 'better conditions'. Food globally will be scare, there will be water wars as long ago predicted...
Food is not scarce. There are too many people. Perhaps you could bring yourself to be as zealous about solving THAT problem as you are about the faux AGW "problem?"

Quote:
No Phantom, I don't think it will be a better place, every extreme you can think of will become more so it seems.
That's just silly. You're saying the Arctic will be more "extreme?"

By the way, I'll ask Neal Boortz' favorite question: What is the "right" temperature for the earth? Until you can answer that scientifically, every other discussion about temperatures is pretty much foolish.

Quote:
Maybe the irony is, just when they find the way to prolong life (about 30 years time according to Singularity University) life will so so much harder to live unless as always, you are one of the privileged few.
Well, I will certainly do my best to be one of those - and will be sad when those like you have passed beyond the veil so I can't say, "I told you so!"

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  #1839  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: The Climate Change Debate Thread

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Originally Posted by JRP3 View Post
You should talk to the Siberians who's homes and roads are sinking into the melting permafrost. They don't seem to be real happy about it for some reason. Similar things happening in sections of Canada I believe. If warming conditions also lead to droughts or floods in our food producing regions it may not be quite the party you expect. Not to mention potentially more violent storms, higher temps mean more energy in the atmosphere.
The flooding would be temporary in those regions as the permafrost melts. The Nile floods every year, too - and for thousands of years it has been understood to be a gift from God for the abundance it brings with it.

I know lots of Canadians, and none are frightened in the least at the prospect of a 2 degree temperature rise.
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  #1840  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:56 PM
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Which of course misses the whole point. A catalyst can be a small percentage of a formula but still drives the reaction.
Please point us to an article proving that CO2 is both a greenhouse gas (just like H2O) and also has an additional catalyst role? Oh, that's right - there isn't one. I've already done that search...

Quote:
The atmosphere may be relatively stable with 98% water, but maybe not when other greenhouse gases start to increase in volume.
Sounds like pure speculation to me - kind of like all the rest of the hype around AGW. 15 million years ago CO2 levels were around double what they are today - but do not correlate to temperature in a way even remotely predicted by the AGW model.

Quote:
The conclusion, Dickens said, is that something other than carbon dioxide caused much of the heating during the PETM. "Some feedback loop or other processes that aren't accounted for in these models -- the same ones used by the IPCC for current best estimates of 21st Century warming -- caused a substantial portion of the warming that occurred during the PETM."
The most likely answer seems to be that rising temperatures caused higher CO2 levels, not the other way around, and that some other mechanism (duh, could it be the sun?) caused the heating.

As always, the "real" answer is entirely moot. The earth has been hotter and colder, and CO2 levels have been higher and lower, for millions of years. Inside of 10 years we will crack the battery problem and the solar cell problem and all angst about man-made CO2 will be a bad joke. Those of you yelling "AGW!" today will have found a new disaster to believe in, and thus it ever was...
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