[karlos]

Originally Posted by Beemer

This is so funny. We now have respondents who claim density of gasses increase with temperature. Thanks Caps18. Enjoyed that. Wondered what the weight of heat is while you were at it? I really believed engines compressed the mixture to achieve volumetric efficiency... How wrong I was. It's obvious now. The explosion SUCKS the next cycle round. hahaha.

Maybe they use spark plugs in diesel engines because compressing the gasses does not make it hot? I'm sure you will find that totally believable. Maybe you can invent a water engine. Compress water vapour and it turns into steam. Instant steam engine! Go get it patented boys! hahaha.

I've said this before but as (mostly) all of you all have your eye's firmly closed and fingers in ears screaming La La La La La.
At a height of around 55Km over the surface of Venus, the atmospheric pressure is approximately 15psi. Ironically the temperature at this height is around 22C. Info can be found in many websites for children.

Also boys, if you pump up your bicycle tyre and hold the end of the pump with your fingers, you may find you can burn them. This is at fairly low pressures compared to what we find on Venus.

Nobody here can argue away any of the laws of thermodynamics.
If you cannot believe this, my only suggestion is you have your medication reviewed.

Nobody argued increasing pressure of a gas increases the heat of it. It does not prove you theory though.

[Beemer]

Originally Posted by karlos

You still don't get it, bad example because in it you are changing the volume and pressure (just how a heat pump or AC unit is made to work) After the dive bottle has been sitting around for a day, what is the temperature? Ambiant of course. For it to be hot, there has to be an external heat source.
You and engineer, LOL

No Karlos, you don't understand the simplest of facts. You compress a gas, it gets hot. Air moves vertically to, get over it. The temperature of the gas at altitude is determined by Sunlight.

Here is another real world example for you.
Have you never noticed the days when the weather is said to be "High pressure"? That is high sinking air. Usually cloudless days with little or scattered wind directions, hot & humid. Note the air temperature is ALWAYS HOT as the Sun heats the sinking air.

One of these days I will of burned away every straw you guys are clinging on to.

[Beemer]

Karlos! Who said this? Are you calling him a nobody?

Originally Posted by Caps18

And maybe the pressure goes up because the temperature went up... The gravity on both planets is very similar so there is no reason that the atmospheric pressure should be that high.

Poor lad, he's not on his own when it comes to full and complete denial of reality.

[Caps18]

Originally Posted by Caps18

And maybe the pressure goes up because the temperature went up... The gravity on both planets is very similar...

I will double down on my statement. Why are my tires at 40 psi in the summer when I filled them up to 35 psi a few week ago when it was colder? I didn't add any more air, they have just gotten hotter in the summer sun. The container size didn't change.



PV = nRT, where
P = pressure
V = volume
n = number of moles
R = Reynold's constant
T = temperature

Even though we can't see through the Venus atmosphere, it does allow some wavelengths of thermal energy though. These will scatter and get trapped. And once it gets hot enough, the Calcium Carbonate starts to break down adding lots of CO2 that builds up increasing n...

Originally Posted by david85

Gravity is not the only factor that determines atmospheric pressure.

Volume of the atmosphere is pretty much determined by gravity.

n is increasing because of gas releases from the surface

R is constant

T is getting help from the Sun to throw more energy at it, which helps P goes up.

-------

Anyways, temps and conditions on other planets don't make a big deal when it comes to fixing the problems we have on this planet. I would rather live on a planet that had Solar Powered electric vehicles and no multi-national oil and coal companies polluting the air I breathe.

[Beemer]

Originally Posted by Caps18

I will double down on my statement. Why are my tires at 40 psi in the summer when I filled them up to 35 psi a few week ago when it was colder? I didn't add any more air, they have just gotten hotter in the summer sun. The container size didn't change.

blob, blob, blob

Even though we can't see through the Venus atmosphere, it does allow some wavelengths of thermal energy though. These will scatter and get trapped. And once it gets hot enough, the Calcium Carbonate starts to break down adding lots of CO2 that builds up increasing n...



blob, blob, blob.

Calcium carbonate on Venus?????
So what happened to Venus' sulphuric acid rain? If you can find me any factual data proving the existence of this stuff. I want to know!
Was the pilots name Paul?

C02 is not a pollutant. remove it from the atmosphere and all life that breathes air will be dead in a year.

Venus does not live inside a car tyre. There is no such mechanism over any planet.

Actually, the thermal wavelengths are the first to be affected. There is next to no direct IR radiation from the sun on the surface. Some light does filter through but its very groggy.

The atmospheric pressure is as said before, 93 atmospheres or 92 bar. A factoid known since 1976. Regardless what you opine.

However. I keep on banging about the fact that there is a Unified Theory of Climate. Nobody here has it in them to effectively rebuke this paper because it fits with known temperature readings from every world regardless of the composition of its atmosphere. So we must accept it as fact.

Another well known factoid that the carbonazi's don't want you to know is Earths early atmosphere. We had happy little creatures like corals making their own happy little houses on their backs when the Earths atmosphere had 7,000ppm C02.

In our last mini ice age in the 1650~1700's (The Maunder minimum), 10 million people died in Europe from the bad weather. The previous ice age killed off most of the worlds fauna in the atmosphere as C02 levels dropped to within 30ppm of all planet life shutting down. Try feeding that to your donkey!

[Caps18]

http://iopscience.iop.org/0034-4885/66/10/R04/

Limestone/Calcium Carbonate is rare because of the sulfuric acid turning it into CO2.

Originally Posted by Beemer

C02 is not a pollutant. remove it from the atmosphere and all life that breathes air will be dead in a year.

It is a pollutant to humans. Go into an enclosed and sealed up place and increase the amount of C02. It would make this thread a lot better.

It forms brown clouds over cities along with the other pollutants to help trap the heat/thermal IR and cause health problems.

Originally Posted by Beemer

Venus does not live inside a car tyre. There is no such mechanism over any planet.

Gravity is what keeps the atmosphere attracted to the surface. It is why the 'air' is thinner on top of a mountain.

I don't want to have to live on top of a mountain because we have polluted the air at ground level too much.

Originally Posted by Beemer

Actually, the thermal wavelengths are the first to be affected. There is next to no direct IR radiation from the sun on the surface. Some light does filter through but its very groggy.

And you don't know what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Beemer

The atmospheric pressure is as said before, 93 atmospheres or 92 bar. A factoid known since 1976. Regardless what you opine.

It would be less if the concentration of C02 gas was still trapped in the rocks on Venus or trapped in the oil on Earth.

Venus doesn't have water or cities built right next to the sea either. Mars is far out there and CO2 solidifies into dry ice.

Originally Posted by Beemer

However. I keep on banging about the fact that there is a Unified Theory of Climate. Nobody here has it in them to effectively rebuke this paper because it fits with known temperature readings from every world regardless of the composition of its atmosphere. So we must accept it as fact.

Here is a rebuke.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1907/...f_Climate.html

You don't just get to make facts. You have to actually test them and prove them.

The one that I'm wondering about is that they think we are measuring cloud temperatures from satellites. We can measure cloud temps, but we can also 'see' right through them to measure ground temps.

Originally Posted by Beemer

Another well known factoid that the carbonazi's don't want you to know is Earths early atmosphere. We had happy little creatures like corals making their own happy little houses on their backs when the Earths atmosphere had 7,000ppm C02.

So what? Antarctica might be a tropical paradise at 7,000ppm, it doesn't mean that we should get there.

Originally Posted by Beemer

In our last mini ice age in the 1650~1700's (The Maunder minimum), 10 million people died in Europe from the bad weather. The previous ice age killed off most of the worlds fauna in the atmosphere as C02 levels dropped to within 30ppm of all planet life shutting down. Try feeding that to your donkey!

We also don't live in 1650-1700

Originally Posted by Beemer

That is fine and good, until the tree dies (or the leaves fall off and decompose) or burns up.

Plants might rule the Earth again, but I'm more concerned about the drought in the Midwest US and if warming oceans are having an effect on the jet stream.

And here is an simple experiment that was done to match your tree one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRd5GT0v0I

Why does the same box get hotter if CO2 or methane are added?

[david85]

Originally Posted by Caps18

Volume of the atmosphere is pretty much determined by gravity.

n is increasing because of gas releases from the surface

R is constant

T is getting help from the Sun to throw more energy at it, which helps P goes up.

-------

Anyways, temps and conditions on other planets don't make a big deal when it comes to fixing the problems we have on this planet. I would rather live on a planet that had solar powered electric vehicles and no multi-national oil and coal companies polluting the air I breathe.

Pressure is not the same as volume. They are can be related, but that does not make them the same. Those factors you list above all influence pressure of the atmosphere, which is why gravity is not the only factor that determines atmospheric pressure. Dominant factor maybe, but not the only one.

[Caps18]

It is the Ideal Gas Law. PV=nRT. Pressure times Volume equals moles times the Reynolds Constant times Temperature. It is even in the 'Unified theory' PDF.


Anyways, here is a good article. Pretty much showing how both sides are just re-enforcing what they already believe with the science or studies that they want to agree with.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/op...iots.html?_r=2

For example, here is a left-wing blog talking about the results of a right-wing climate study that didn't turn out how they wanted it too...
http://eclectablog.com/2011/10/clima...-pwned-by.html

I don't really know what it will take at this point to bring everyone together and agree on anything though.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by david85

Thats not how I read it. As I understood it, he was stating that temperature changes cause those things which combine to drive weather events. Sure those other things have influence but what starts the process and keeps it going?

I think the wording he chose is very clear and very exclusive.

Bold added.

Originally Posted by Beemer

Oh yes, bad weather is purely and only caused by temperature mixing and or changing.

His wording leaves zero room for any other influence or cause.

The version you are describing of ... "Sure those other things have influence" ... makes more sense ... but it is not what Beemer wrote ... and it disagrees with the exclusivity of what Beemer wrote ... and it is the very exclusive language of the statement he wrote that I have pointed out is factually incorrect ... because as he wrote it ... it is factually incorrect.

Further it is still not "purely and only" started by nor maintained by temperature either ... you still can't have evaporation of water where there is no water ... you can't have condensation of water if there is not water to condense ... temperature is important ... but 'bad weather' is not "purely and only" about temperature ... not in starting the 'bad weather' ... not in maintaining the bad weather.

I would be happy if this was just another example of Beemer not intending or meaning what he wrote as he wrote it ... but so far he has refused to admit the error and make the simple correction needed to remove the very exclusive language he used ... instead he has tried to defend it, insult me, etc ... the statement in question is incorrect as written ... if he didn't mean the exclusive language he wrote , he should make the correction... but at this point I have my doubts that his pride will let him.

I would have let it go with just me pointing out the statement as written is factually incorrect ... but it is the efforts at defending this factually incorrect as written statement that have caused it to be prolonged ... as I respond to those defense efforts and or don't let Beemer's insults lie unchallenged.

- - - - - - - - - -

Originally Posted by Beemer

Wondered what the weight of heat is while you were at it?

Actually it does have weight.
E=MC^2 gives the relativistic mass of the heat energy ... and the gravitational force acting on that mass gives it's weight.

[Salty9]

Interesting. Refuting science with blob.