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  #11  
Old 10-15-2011, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Larry wrote -
> My project will also include integrating the car battery bank with solar pv
> roof installation providing backup power to the house during outages. This
> will entail creating 48v banks within the car to be compatible with solar
> system. Then switching quickly back to series for road use. Any advice?
>

Hi Larry,

Where do you live? 26 miles from Harrisonburg VA? How many outages have you had in the past couple
years and how long have they lasted?

I ask that because from your words above 'entail creating 48v banks' implies that your going to have
a Battery PV system, and not a grid tie system. I would check with your Local PV guy to see what he
recommends from and efficiency and economics point of view, Grid tie or battery PV?

If your PV system is large enough and you and your family are 'green' enough to produce more
electricity than you use, you may find it advantageous to not have a battery PV system so that you
can basically charge your EV for free and not have the expense and problems associated with a
battery system.

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

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  #12  
Old 10-15-2011, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Couple comments:

It may not cost you as much for LiFePO4 for the Solectria as you think since
it probably only uses 250 Wh or less per mile at 60 mph (my Suzuki Swift
uses about 225 Wh/mile with one passenger). Also consider you don't get
fumes and need to regularly check water level like you do with flooded lead
acid (sealed lead acid have even less range due to lower Ah), and they will
likely last much longer, weigh less, and require less space (a premium in a
small car).

I have a 5.6kW grid tied pv system which powers both my house and car, and
has enough power for another another car at about 25 miles per day. It is
cheaper to use the grid as your "battery" for night time charging if you
have that option. If you don't, you might consider just buying flooded lead
acid batteries to dedicate to the solar pv, since they will last for around
10 years in that low current application, be fairly inexpensive for a few
days backup if like me you only use about 12 kWh per day or less for the
house, and save you the hassle of trying to use your car's pack.

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  #13  
Old 10-15-2011, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

The PV solar system will be grid tie in with battery bank backup.
Essentially I want to use the car as the battery bank. I am looking for
independence not just best ROI. I will charge the car from the grid on a
regular basis but want to be able to charge it with solar in a pinch.

I am not sure that we are not headed for some tough times as a country and
as a world community in the years ahead. Hence the look at independence.

We have lived in Tucson and are divesting of rental properties there as we
speak.

Thanks for the input.

Larry

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  #14  
Old 10-16-2011, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Keep in mind, though, that a grid-tie system will be down when the grid is
down. Even if your PV system is generating, you won't be able to use it
unless you can disconnect your system from the grid. My understanding is
this is installed as a safety measure so private systems can't be powering
the grid when it is down.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of tomw
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 12:18 PM
> To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
>
> Couple comments:
>
> It may not cost you as much for LiFePO4 for the Solectria as you think
since it
> probably only uses 250 Wh or less per mile at 60 mph (my Suzuki Swift uses
> about 225 Wh/mile with one passenger). Also consider you don't get fumes
> and need to regularly check water level like you do with flooded lead acid
> (sealed lead acid have even less range due to lower Ah), and they will
likely
> last much longer, weigh less, and require less space (a premium in a small
> car).
>
> I have a 5.6kW grid tied pv system which powers both my house and car, and
> has enough power for another another car at about 25 miles per day. It is
> cheaper to use the grid as your "battery" for night time charging if you
have
> that option. If you don't, you might consider just buying flooded lead
acid
> batteries to dedicate to the solar pv, since they will last for around
> 10 years in that low current application, be fairly inexpensive for a few
days
> backup if like me you only use about 12 kWh per day or less for the house,
> and save you the hassle of trying to use your car's pack.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-
> tp3903625p3907960.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2011, 07:46 AM
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Default [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 13:15:57 -0400
From: "Jack" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <xxx@xxx.xxx.edu>
Message-ID: <xxx@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

On the Ranger I welded up the battery boxes for a conversion that Steve
Clunn did for someone & I got five, 6 volt batteries on one side of the
drive shaft & six on the other side & 11 behind the rear end with four up
front total of 26 batteries. the ones in the back next to the drive shaft
were really tight & took a lot of work to get them to clear the drive shaft
& rear end on that one side. after I was done welding I had to go back to
work so I never found out how many miles it was getting with 26 batteries!
Some time I would like to do a S10 to see how much more room it has in the
back for batteries, talk is that the frame rails are wider to make it easier
to fit them in. if u want more batteries I would go with the S10 extended
cab .

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Tromley
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:12 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

[quote] Jay Summet <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> I have a standard cab (2 adults, possibly 3 skinny adults) S-10 with
> Lead Acid batteries (20 six volt) and I like the carrying capacity of
> the truck frame with all that lead. It handles and breaks reasonably,
> but feels like I am carrying around a load of gravel all the time.
> Luckily the truck is designed to carry around that extra weight.
>

--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

This is addressed by adding a transfer switch. They can be automatic (relay
driven) or manual. Can be inserted between the inverter and the main
service panel, so the inverter disconnects from the panel and connects to a
battery bank (most common), or between the grid and the main service panel
so the complete house circuitry and panel are disconnected from the grid and
connected to the inverter. The latter doesn't do you any good at night of
course, so would also require connection to a battery bank with a charge
regulator.



[quote]Mike Nickerson wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, though, that a grid-tie system will be down when the grid is
> down. Even if your PV system is generating, you won't be able to use it
> unless you can disconnect your system from the grid. My understanding is
> this is installed as a safety measure so private systems can't be powering
> the grid when it is down.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ev-bounces@.sjsu [mailto:ev-bounces@.sjsu] On
>> Behalf Of tomw
>> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 12:18 PM
>> To: ev@.sjsu
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
>>
>> Couple comments:
>>
>> It may not cost you as much for LiFePO4 for the Solectria as you think
> since it
>> probably only uses 250 Wh or less per mile at 60 mph (my Suzuki Swift
>> uses
>> about 225 Wh/mile with one passenger). Also consider you don't get fumes
>> and need to regularly check water level like you do with flooded lead
>> acid
>> (sealed lead acid have even less range due to lower Ah), and they will
> likely
>> last much longer, weigh less, and require less space (a premium in a
>> small
>> car).
>>
>> I have a 5.6kW grid tied pv system which powers both my house and car,
>> and
>> has enough power for another another car at about 25 miles per day. It
>> is
>> cheaper to use the grid as your "battery" for night time charging if you
> have
>> that option. If you don't, you might consider just buying flooded lead
> acid
>> batteries to dedicate to the solar pv, since they will last for around
>> 10 years in that low current application, be fairly inexpensive for a few
> days
>> backup if like me you only use about 12 kWh per day or less for the
>> house,
>> and save you the hassle of trying to use your car's pack.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
>> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-
>> tp3903625p3907960.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to ev@.sjsu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to ev@.sjsu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>


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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:45 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Second what Rush said. Unless your utility does not offer net
metering (check to see if it's real net metering where the meter runs
backwards the same speed it runs forwards... not all states require
this), it's wayyyyyy less hassle to have the solar not have any
batteries at all.... unless it's for backup power... in which case,
yes, batteries, and 48 volts is really the highest voltage of battery
backup grid-tie capable inverters till you get into the 100kW
range....

Z

[quote] Rush <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Larry wrote -
>> My project will also include integrating the car battery bank with solar=
pv
>> roof installation providing backup power to the house during outages. =
This
>> will entail creating 48v banks within the car to be compatible with solar
>> system. Then switching quickly back to series for road use. Any ad=
vice?
>>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Where do you live? 26 miles from Harrisonburg VA? How many outages have y=
ou had in the past couple
> years and how long have they lasted?
>
> I ask that because from your words above 'entail creating 48v banks' impl=
ies that your going to have
> a Battery PV system, and not a grid tie system. I would check with you=
r Local PV guy to see what he
> recommends from and efficiency and economics point of view, Grid tie or b=
attery PV?
>
> If your PV system is large enough and you and your family are 'green' eno=
ugh to produce more
> electricity than you use, you may find it advantageous to not have a batt=
ery PV system so that you
> can basically charge your EV for free and not have the expense and proble=
ms associated with a
> battery system.
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:45 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Any inverter rated for battery backup use and connecting to the grid
will have this transfer switch built into the inverter. I usually add
one external to it too that can switch the backed up loads to the grid
when I'm servicing the inverter, but under normal operation, the
manual never gets used.

Z

[quote] tomw <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> This is addressed by adding a transfer switch. They can be automatic (=
relay
> driven) or manual. Can be inserted between the inverter and the main
> service panel, so the inverter disconnects from the panel and connects to=
a
> battery bank (most common), or between the grid and the main service panel
> so the complete house circuitry and panel are disconnected from the grid =
and
> connected to the inverter. The latter doesn't do you any good at night=
of
> course, so would also require connection to a battery bank with a charge
> regulator.
>
>
>
> Mike Nickerson wrote:
>>
>> Keep in mind, though, that a grid-tie system will be down when the grid =
is
>> down. Even if your PV system is generating, you won't be able to use =
it
>> unless you can disconnect your system from the grid. My understanding=
is
>> this is installed as a safety measure so private systems can't be poweri=
ng
>> the grid when it is down.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ev-bounces@.sjsu [mailto:ev-bounces@.sjsu] On
>>> Behalf Of tomw
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 12:18 PM
>>> To: ev@.sjsu
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
>>>
>>> Couple comments:
>>>
>>> It may not cost you as much for LiFePO4 for the Solectria as you think
>> since it
>>> probably only uses 250 Wh or less per mile at 60 mph (my Suzuki Swift
>>> uses
>>> about 225 Wh/mile with one passenger). Also consider you don't get f=
umes
>>> and need to regularly check water level like you do with flooded lead
>>> acid
>>> (sealed lead acid have even less range due to lower Ah), and they will
>> likely
>>> last much longer, weigh less, and require less space (a premium in a
>>> small
>>> car).
>>>
>>> I have a 5.6kW grid tied pv system which powers both my house and car,
>>> and
>>> has enough power for another another car at about 25 miles per day. =
It
>>> is
>>> cheaper to use the grid as your "battery" for night time charging if you
>> have
>>> that option. If you don't, you might consider just buying flooded le=
ad
>> acid
>>> batteries to dedicate to the solar pv, since they will last for around
>>> 10 years in that low current application, be fairly inexpensive for a f=
ew
>> days
>>> backup if like me you only use about 12 kWh per day or less for the
>>> house,
>>> and save you the hassle of trying to use your car's pack.
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
>>> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-
>>> tp3903625p3907960.html
>>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>>> |
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to ev@.sjsu only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to ev@.sjsu only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413=
529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-tp3903625p3909561.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Na=
bble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx@xxx.xxx.edu only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>

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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2011, 06:45 PM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

From: Steve Clunn <
Jack is a fine welder and fabricator ,has a nice portable welder ,
Likes working on EV's . Don't know it he would go out side Florida .
The ford ranger he helped with had 26 golf cart batteries and would
pull about 100 amps at 45 to 50 mph , So 45 to 50 miles range at that
speed .



>From: "Jack" <xxx@xxx.xxx>
On the Ranger I welded up the battery boxes for a conversion that Steve
Clunn did for someone & I got five, 6 volt batteries on one side of the
drive shaft & six on the other side & 11 behind the rear end with four up
front total of 26 batteries. the ones in the back next to the drive shaft
were really tight & took a lot of work to get them to clear the drive shaft
& rear end on that one side. after I was done welding I had to go back to
work so I never found out how many miles it was getting with 26 batteries!
e-----
From: Chris Tromley

> Lead Acid batteries (20 six volt) and I like the carrying capacity of
> the truck frame with all that lead. It handles and breaks reasonably,
> but feels like I am carrying around a load of gravel all the time.
> Luckily the truck is designed to carry around that extra weight.

At one time this was the best one could do ... and it was good enough
for me for many years
Steve Clunn

Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2011, 02:45 AM
EVDL List EVDL List is offline
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Default Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

If the battery charging part is on the DC side then there is no reason
why that would not still work even while the grid is down, because the
grid must not be backfed, so I understand why a grid-tied system will go
down (I had one for a long time) but there are grid-interactive systems
with a transfer switch in the grid AC path such that the inverter works
in the same way as a backup UPS.


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: xxx@xxx.xxx Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 11:12 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car

Keep in mind, though, that a grid-tie system will be down when the grid
is down. Even if your PV system is generating, you won't be able to use
it unless you can disconnect your system from the grid. My
understanding is this is installed as a safety measure so private
systems can't be powering the grid when it is down.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu [mailto:xxx@xxx.xxx.edu] On
> Behalf Of tomw
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 12:18 PM
> To: xxx@xxx.xxx.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Extended cab vs small car
>
> Couple comments:
>
> It may not cost you as much for LiFePO4 for the Solectria as you think
since it
> probably only uses 250 Wh or less per mile at 60 mph (my Suzuki Swift
> uses about 225 Wh/mile with one passenger). Also consider you don't
> get fumes and need to regularly check water level like you do with
> flooded lead acid (sealed lead acid have even less range due to lower
> Ah), and they will
likely
> last much longer, weigh less, and require less space (a premium in a
> small car).
>
> I have a 5.6kW grid tied pv system which powers both my house and car,

> and has enough power for another another car at about 25 miles per
> day. It is cheaper to use the grid as your "battery" for night time
> charging if you
have
> that option. If you don't, you might consider just buying flooded
> lead
acid
> batteries to dedicate to the solar pv, since they will last for around

> 10 years in that low current application, be fairly inexpensive for a
> few
days
> backup if like me you only use about 12 kWh per day or less for the
> house, and save you the hassle of trying to use your car's pack.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Extended-cab-vs-small-car-
> tp3903625p3907960.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at

> Nabble.com.
>
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