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  #1  
Old 02-09-2014, 08:46 PM
Roderick Roderick is offline
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Default 1996 Jaguar XK8 Ev (Planning Stage)

Attachment 18187hello I'm new to this forum!
I'm planning to start my first EV conversion! And I would like to get as much advice or feedback from this forum so please do leave anything that may help me!

Experience:
I have experience of building 5 E-bikes in past. I had enough with having have to worry about the weather all the time and making sure no one can steal my ebike!
I have working understanding of ICE and MT (not much on AT). I need to do more readings on ECU, gear ratio and other car mechanics...But I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty!
I have computer science degree and now working as a engineer at auto parts company (working on self-driving EV car).


What I got:
Donor car - 1996-1998 Jaguar XK8 (4.0L AJ26-V8)
0-100km/h - 7.8sec was original
Drag - 0.35Cd
Weight - 3560lbs (1615kg)
-- 1st 3.57:1
-- 2nd 2.20:1
-- 3rd 1.51:1
-- 4th 1.00:1
-- 5th 0.80:1
-- R 4.10:1
-- Final 3.06:1


What I want:
Top speed - 160km/h (100mph)
highway continuous speed - 110km/h (68mph)
Range - 110-150km (70-93mile)
Cost - 20,000USD(exclude donor)

Needs (Correct me if im wrong):
Motor - Kostov K11 alpha
Controller op1 - Soliton 1
Controller op2 - Soliton Jr.
Battery op1- CA100FI(80s)/CA60FI(70s2p)/CA180FI(60s)
Charger - not sure yet
BMS - not sure I'll need it

I've made quick excel to check as much as possible.

So here is where I am at:
got a dealer who can sell me the car for a good price(I'm getting it by April)
started emailing EV parts companies for their shipping quotes (Chinese new year isn't helping me much tho,,,)
looking for a garage I can work and getting to know my local garage shop people.
Attached Files
File Type: zip EV BudgetVer5.zip (19.9 KB, 15 views)
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Last edited by Roderick; 03-14-2014 at 03:41 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2014, 12:04 AM
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RIPPERTON RIPPERTON is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
Correct me if im wrong
Motor - Kostov K11 alpha
Controller op1 - Soliton 1

Hi Roderick, pretty Shnazzy donor car, but....
go Brushless or go home.
No EV can be planned these days without KERS for range extension.
Brushed motors are as out dated as ICE.
They are usually only used in drag racing.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:03 AM
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sunworksco sunworksco is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Brushed motors do make good boat anchors!
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:23 AM
Roderick Roderick is offline
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Post Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by RIPPERTON View Post
Hi Roderick, pretty Shnazzy donor car, but....
go Brushless or go home.
No EV can be planned these days without KERS for range extension.
Brushed motors are as out dated as ICE.
They are usually only used in drag racing.
Yes, I was aiming for Snazzy!
Any recommendation for BLDC motor to run on the spec?

Edit: After looking through AC (BLDC) It seems like I should go towards The AC-75 or AC-51.
considering their price does include controller and they have more torque per voltage and weight.

started looking up the difference between BLDC and AC now...despite all the E-bikes, I still dont know anything! lol
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Last edited by Roderick; 02-10-2014 at 02:21 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Hi

AC are definitely the way to go - in the future

As far as NOW is concerned AC is either;
Expensive or wimpy or both

If you can afford $20,000 then you can get decent power out of AC

If not you will end up turning your Jag into a mouse pretending to be a cat

Brushed motors are cheap, reliable and above all powerful

Your 11 inch Dc and Soliton will give 300 hp for as long as your batteries can take
And you would think about change that to a 75hp motor?
OK for a small city car - but not a Jag
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2014, 07:20 AM
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Tesseract Tesseract is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
What I got:
Donor car - 1996-1998 Jaguar XK8 (4.0L AJ26-V8)
Rebirth Auto made a twin-motor adapter for the 96-08 XK8. It's pretty spendy, but they might be willing to modify it for a single motor which should bring down the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
What I want:
Top speed - 160km/h (100mph)
highway continuous speed - 110km/h (68mph)
Range - 110-150km (70-93mile)
Cost - 20,000USD(exclude donor)

Needs (Correct me if im wrong):
Motor - Kostov K11 alpha
Controller op1 - Soliton 1
Controller op2 - Soliton Jr.
Battery op1- CA100FI(80s)/CA60FI(70s2p)/CA180FI(60s)
Charger - not sure yet
BMS - not sure I'll need it
...
The Kostov K11 Alpha is a good choice for this application and I'd go with the 80s pack as the Kostov needs more voltage but less current than a comparable NetGain motor.

As for the choice of controllers, I would say that your vehicle's weight plus the (implied) desire for a sub-8 second 0-100km/h time give the nod to the Soliton 1, but in order to keep the Kostov happy you'll want to turn the motor current limit down to 750-800A because of the aforementioned caveat about running at a higher voltage and lower current for a given power output. Note that the K11 will deliver ~190Nm (~140 lb-ft) of torque at 500A and since torque is more or less directly proportional to current in this part of the performance curve, you should get 270Nm (~200 lb-ft) at 720A, which is about the same as a WarP-9 at 1000A.

I think you can meet your $20k budget with the 80s pack of 100Ah, the K11 Alpha and the Soliton 1. After buying those major items you will have $4000 left over for the motor adapter and various odds and ends.

As for the comment from Ripperton that DC is dead... to paraphrase Mark Twain, rumors of DC's demise are greatly exaggerated. After all, an AC system that comes close to the peak output of a $5750 Soliton Jr + K11 Alpha system is the HPEVS AC35x2 which clocks in at $8900. You have to recapture a lot of range* through regen braking (and/or save a lot of brake pad replacements) to justify that $3150 premium in price.

Granted, there are some "intangible" benefits to regen braking along with more tangible benefits like saving wear on brake pads and increasing net range, so I leave it to the individual to decide what is most important rather than just categorically declare one solution fits all and to hell with the rest of you.

Also, an AC controller (or "inverter") will *always* cost more for a given power output than a DC controller, so don't expect these prices to drop dramatically as volume picks up. For example, the Soliton 1 uses two half-bridge modules that together can deliver an honest 300kW (300V @ 1000A). If I were to add a 3rd module to make it into an inverter, the same modules might could be pushed to deliver 500A rms per phase (but only by exceeding 500A for a good portion of each cycle!). That adds up to a total power output of 184kW**. So, by adding another IGBT module and cutting power output by 40% you get an inverter... Some fancy modulation schemes will squeeze a bit more AC voltage out of the DC supply, but even that would only bump you up to 210kW or so.

* - Approximately 143000km, actually, assuming electricity costs $0.10 per kW-hr and the average EV of this weight requires 220Wh to go 1km.

** - Total AC power from DC input voltage and the current in one phase is calculated by this equation: (Vdc / 1.414) * (Irms * 1.732)
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2014, 07:37 AM
Roderick Roderick is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

thanks Tesseracts! it make more sense now.
and for the rebirth twin system, they only used the system that way due to clearance of 11" motor won't fit well on the jag. I believe they only tested it with warp 11. (k11a is only 3cm larger in diameter then warp 9).

also for the 0-100km/h, I was referring to the original and not the converted version. I don't mind having mine slightly slower.(within 10sec)

thanks again for the explanation Tesseract
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2014, 08:09 AM
glaurung glaurung is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Hi Roderic
Nice choise for conversion. I have XJS conversion that is about same vehicle, only without electronic complications. I tried with Kostov dual11" without transmission and it overheated. Too low gear ratio.With 10" motor and gearbox fixed on second gear it was fine, only top speed was too low.
I had 64 or so 200ah cells and range was what you wished.
Considering these experiences i would say that Tesseracts suggestion is very accurate.
Good luck with your conversion!
Regards, Harri
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2014, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
thanks Tesseracts! it make more sense now.
and for the rebirth twin system, they only used the system that way due to clearance of 11" motor won't fit well on the jag. I believe they only tested it with warp 11. (k11a is only 3cm larger in diameter then warp 9).
Your welcome.

As for the Rebirth twin motor adapter, I can assure you that it was tested with WarP-9 motors. That XK-8 was shipped to Rebbl in the Netherlands, but I'm not sure if they still have it. It was a beast to drive (and cooked a couple sets of motors before Seb got the forced-air cooling working right).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
also for the 0-100km/h, I was referring to the original and not the converted version. I don't mind having mine slightly slower.(within 10sec)

Well, much as I'd like to sell you the more powerful controller, I think the Soliton Jr will do fine. With 80 100Ah cells limited to 4C you'll have 100-105kW to work with, and that should just about get you to 100km/h in 10s.
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Last edited by Tesseract; 02-10-2014 at 03:01 PM. Reason: fix quoting
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:23 PM
Roderick Roderick is offline
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Default Re: Jaguar XK8 (96') EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesseract View Post

As for the Rebirth twin motor adapter, I can assure you that it was tested with WarP-9 motors. That XK-8 was shipped to Rebbl in the Netherlands, but I'm not sure if they still have it. It was a beast to drive (and cooked a couple sets of motors before Seb got the forced-air cooling working right).


Sorry about my horrible english, I mean to say they could only fit 9" due to clearance(warp 11 was too big). I'm sure k11a would fit fine tho.... hopefully.
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