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  #121  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:15 AM
FireCrow FireCrow is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

yes, we've seen that one before... because he built it, it doesn't mean it works as it's supposed to... It's driving, yeah... but that's just a video... there could be anything under that bonnet... and it looks shit...
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  #122  
Old 04-21-2012, 02:58 AM
zsnemeth zsnemeth is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Not to mention, it's a 6 year old video and I still haven't find them in the Fortune 500!
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  #123  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:58 AM
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dougingraham dougingraham is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by zafh15a View Post
If you were to unplug completely, range would need to be under 3 ft per day.
I live in a place where the solar insolation value is about 3. This means on the worst day of the year if the sun shines I would get the equivalent of 3 hours of charging. If I were to cover my hood with solar cells that have 15% efficiency, face the car south, tip the hood up to the proper angle I would be able to charge my batteries while I am working and recover 720 watt hours of charge. At 200 wh/mile this would be 3.6 miles. At 300 wh/mile this would be 2.4 miles. And that is on December 21. For more than half the year I would get 8 hours of charging or 1920 watt hours of charge. At 200 wh/mile this would give me 9.6 miles and at 300 wh/mile 6.4 miles of charge. I drive an average of 12 miles per day. So I couldn't unplug if I were to do this. But it would cut my charging costs in half. It will go from around $0.396 per day to $0.198 per day cost to charge. It takes a lot of those to pay for the panels and special boost charger that would be needed.

Just saying that it is not three feet, it is closer to 8 miles on the average. So not practical but not impossible like thinking you can power the car from its own relative wind.
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  #124  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:02 PM
EVEngineeer EVEngineeer is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Does anyone know if there is a better form of Solar Power. Solar panels are weak, is there a more modern design? A lot of you are forgetting, that yes I would love to get rid of the plug completely, but to start with, I would like to run partially on other sources of free energy. So, the solar panel is a start. I never said that I am going to make a jump from not even owning an EV to building an EV with 100% free energy. This is a many year long process that I plan to build this car. I'm just trying to find out what my options are and what is the best, but cheapest way of doing things.
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  #125  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:25 PM
MN Driver MN Driver is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Best forms of Solar Power depends on what you are trying to do.

Many universities have a solar car project. The car is small, extremely lightweight, as aerodynamic as they come, and can handle and drive on the highway at 55mph in the sun and if its full sun, a little will be going back in the battery at the moment.

What you don't get with such a car is, well cargo space, crash safety, or the exemption to have the requirement of having a support car as is required when you are running off the regulations required when licensed as an experimental car since it can't meet crash standards and self-built and kit cars aren't licensable in a good chunk of states(including mine, although licensing in another state to someone else that has a standard license and then transfering the title might be a way around that for some states but I haven't looked into that).

As far as low or no energy goes. Solar water heating is cheap. Even cheaper is a solar air heater built yourself out of a sheet of black painted plywood, a wooden frame and a pane of glass with a 1 inch gap between the plywood and a duct that snakes through the area of the gap and insulated ductwork out the back with a fan to push air through it. Point it at the sun a great way to add supplemental heat to a house with scrap material for next to nothing, just be sure you can seal it off to prevent your houses heat from escaping at night or when its cloudy and can't produce heat.

Of course this isn't about cars but you did ask about solar options.
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  #126  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:27 PM
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dougingraham dougingraham is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

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Originally Posted by EVEngineeer View Post
Does anyone know if there is a better form of solar power. Solar panels are weak, is there a more modern design?
With 100% efficiency you could get about 100 watts per square foot. Thats all the energy there is. This would be at high noon near the equator and sea level. It would be a little higher at high elevations say up in the mountains and lower at higher latitudes. There are experimental solar cells that get efficiencies nearing 50% in the lab. The problem with all of these higher efficiency cells is they require more energy than the sun delivers so you need lenses to concentrate the light. They also have an approach where you need to illuminate the back side as well as the front. These would work great in a fixed position like a home or business but are unworkable on a car.

For solar the best way is to charge batteries at your home or business and then level 3 charge your car from those batteries if you need a 20 minute charge. If you don't need level 3 at your home (almost nobody does) you can generate electricity with solar and sell it back to the power company during the day and buy it back from them when you charge at night. Basically using the power company as your storage battery. Mounting solar cells on your car is at best a way to top off your 12v battery and keep the passenger space cool in the summer by circulating air. Even with 100% efficient solar cells you are not going to power a normal two place efficient EV the average driving distance needed to unplug much less a normal four place sedan type. With a highly efficient car and a short commute it could be done but it will basically never pay for itself in that situation. It really is that simple.
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Last edited by dougingraham; 04-21-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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  #127  
Old 04-21-2012, 02:36 PM
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Joey Joey is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Most people that advocate for these types of energy capture systems can understand the general flow of energy in the system, but they fail to consider two issues: the conversion of energy is always less than 100% efficient, and the system boundary. Unless you are taking advantage of an external power source (such as energy from the sun) or energy that would be wasted as heat (brake friction), you can never come out ahead.
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  #128  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:03 AM
EVEngineeer EVEngineeer is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Let me rephrase the question. I know about Solar Power to a point. I have personally built from scrap materials and without instructions, a solar water heater. It was basically a box made out of multiple layers of insulated materials. On top was a sheet of plexiglass to allow for the sun in, but not out. It heated about a gallon of water 20 F degrees higher in about 30 minutes. I only tested it once. So anyways, are there new designs of solar panels? Like is someone producing or testing something that is better then a solar panel? Maybe they kept it like a solar panel and maybe they didn't.
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  #129  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:21 AM
EVEngineeer EVEngineeer is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Here is an example of a way to get AC without using any power from any source that is part of the car. http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Power-Au.../dp/B007P1DLRG
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  #130  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:55 AM
TigerNut TigerNut is offline
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Default Re: Wind Turbine Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVEngineeer View Post
Let me rephrase the question. I know about Solar Power to a point. I have personally built from scrap materials and without instructions, a solar water heater. It was basically a box made out of multiple layers of insulated materials. On top was a sheet of plexiglass to allow for the sun in, but not out. It heated about a gallon of water 20 F degrees higher in about 30 minutes. I only tested it once. So anyways, are there new designs of solar panels? Like is someone producing or testing something that is better then a solar panel? Maybe they kept it like a solar panel and maybe they didn't.
So... for your solar water heater, you can work out the efficiency, because the amount of energy required to heat water by a specific temperature difference is fairly precisely known, and you know the surface area of the plexi window that let the sun in (plus perhaps any reflectors you may have used).

For any Solar Power system, whether it's heat or light, the power limit is about 1kW per square meter (about 100 watts per square foot). You can't get more than that because that is all that the sun is giving you. No magic secret stuff exists that will get more.
The best solar cells in the world (not commercially available) can extract maybe 50% of the energy that falls on them, up to a limit given by their maximum operating temperature. Below that limit, you could use reflectors or lenses to increase the light that falls on a given cell, but you're still limited to the 100 watts per square foot of collecting area.

Solar energy collectors generally look like panels or mirrors because they have to collect the sun's radiant energy (light and heat). The larger the collecting area, the more energy they can capture in a given time, i.e. the more power is available. Again, nobody has a small device that captures a large amount of Solar Power because the power available in a solar collector is proportional to its area. The only way around that is to get some neutron star material, which is dense enough to bend light rays towards itself. But if you can get that, then you will likely have other means of propulsion available to you...
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