[EVDL List]

I've added a photo of the front brushes to my collection.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xxx@xxx.xxx/72157627254806189/

Steve









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Steve,

Those got hammered pretty good but not for a long time. That would have made one hell of a racket. I don't see any real damage on the bottom face of the brushes but a good smack on the side. Hammering the side at 90 Degrees would and could bend the brush holders with no troubles. But to toss them out and in service position! NO.
That force is fully at 90 degrees to the brush holder and the direction the brush would need to go. Someone put those out of service and you paid the price.

I will have my push video up soon.


Pete

Thanks for posting those photos. That tells a bunch. But still does not fit what you found and believe. Your too nice about the situation. It is not a factory problem. Someone else did that.




[quote] xxx@xxx.xxx wrote:

> I've added a photo of the front brushes to my collection.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/xxx@xxx.xxx/72157627254806189/
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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An EV professional who must remain anonymous sent me a photo showing another motor that did the same amazing brush-jump trick as my motor did. I've posted the picture on my Flickr site - it is the last photo in the set. Note the spring pressing against the side of the one brush.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3202513...7627254806189/

Steve










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I wonder if that is one reason Warp has the brushes mounted at an angle?

[quote] <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> An EV professional who must remain anonymous sent me a photo showing anot=
her motor that did the same amazing brush-jump trick as my motor did. =
I've posted the picture on my Flickr site - it is the last photo in the=
set. Note the spring pressing against the side of the one brush.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/3202513...7627254806189/
>
> Steve
>


-- =

David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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This reminds us why there are no popular production EV cars that use a DC
motor or controller.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/AMD-FB1-4001-motor-failure-tp4615703p4633590.html
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Angled brushes actually have more surface area than if mounted at 90 degrees. Even my old Military Starter/Generator has angled brushes. Angled brushes carry more current.

Pete


[quote] David Nelson wrote:

> I wonder if that is one reason Warp has the brushes mounted at an angle?
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM, <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> An EV professional who must remain anonymous sent me a photo showing another motor that did the same amazing brush-jump trick as my motor did. I've posted the picture on my Flickr site - it is the last photo in the set. Note the spring pressing against the side of the one brush.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/3202513...7627254806189/
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>
> --
> David D. Nelson
> http://evalbum.com/1328
> http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com
>
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Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When you have
been in this business as long as I, you will understand the subject we are
talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's were DC at first, when
AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238 controller that controls half of
the world using AC, they ALL went to AC even though it cost more. The
advantages are numerous and too many to go into here. DC is cheaper and that
is the MAIN reason most go for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the
majority use chep controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of.
My 2 cents with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed
conversion specialist.

--
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[quote]Cruisin wrote:
> Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When
> you have been in this business as long as I, you will understand the
> subject we are talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's
> were DC at first, when AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238
> controller that controls half of the world using AC, they ALL went to
> AC even though it cost more. The advantages are numerous and too many
> to go into here. DC is cheaper and that is the MAIN reason most go
> for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the majority use chep
> controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of. My 2 cents
> with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed conversion
> specialist.

!?!?!

Cruisin, you seem to have considerably misunderstood Steve's point. He
simply said that in his experience, the AC EVs built by the major auto
companies were essentially non-repairable (except by replacing entire
assemblies). The DC EVs that used series motors were far simpler, and so
much easier to fix.

May I suggest that perhaps you are a bit out of touch with the vehicles
that are being built, driven, and discussed on this list?

What have you been doing for "44 years as an EV and hybrid instructor
and licensed conversion specialist?" The Toyota Prius and Honda Insight
didn't even come out until 2000; before that there were no highway
hybrid vehicles. Thus, no hybrid instructors. And, what exactly is a
"licensed conversion specialist"? There is no such thing in most states,
unless you mean licensed to do something other than EV conversions (like
a licensed automotive mechanic).

You sound as if you only became aware of EVs recently, and only know
about the EVs produced by the major auto companies. You talk as if the
only other EVs that exist are cheap toy scooters and Chinese electric
bicycles.

That ignores 100 years of mass produced, successful, reliable, efficient
EVs that have been produced; everything from railroad engines, trucks,
buses, industrial vehicles, personal movers, and on-the-road electric
cars. Virtually all of them used DC drive systems.

The Curtis 1238 has only been out a few years, and so far has a very
small market penetration. The large majority of Curtis controllers are
still *DC* motor controllers. Also, the 1238 is an industrial fork lift
controller; it's too small for anything but a very light low speed vehicle.

What do you feel the advantages of an AC drive system are? Efficiency?
Horsepower? Torque? RPM range? Regen? I suspect you'll find that both AC
and DC drives offer all of these features, and are just as capable when
priced the same.

The *intrinsic* differences between AC and DC drive systems are subtle
and of interest mainly to engineers and academics. But as a real-world
practical matter, AC drives are perceived as more glamorous and
higher-tech; thus they can command a higher price. DC drives tend to be
simpler, older, lower-tech; and thus are lower priced. But both do the job.

It's a bit like comparing gasoline engines to diesel engines. Each has
certain technical advantages or disadvantages, and each has tended to
migrate into certain market niches. Each has advocates that fervently
believe that their fuel choice is the best, and that the other fuel is
worthless junk. However, both fuels fundamentally do the same job, and
the average driver couldn't care less if his car burns gasoline or
diesel fuel.

And, which engine a customer gets is largely driven by marketing and
availability; not rationality. Rarely is the customer given any choice
in the matter.
--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Lee, I have been working on and converting cars since 1975 but not in large
volume and in the present state of the art for major auto manufacturers, AC
is used because they have hyped it as something new, and yet in the 1980's
I was teaching industrial electricity and motor controlls and that included
3 ph ac motors and variable frequency drives allowing the motors ro run at
any speed withthe twist of a knob.so do not say it is new technology. The
main claim to fame is higher prices than the venerable series DC motor in
common use for 125 and more years. I feel your analysis was "Right on the
money" Dennis Miles

[quote] Lee Hart <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> Cruisin wrote:
> > Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When
> > you have been in this business as long as I, you will understand the
> > subject we are talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's
> > were DC at first, when AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238
> > controller that controls half of the world using AC, they ALL went to
> > AC even though it cost more. The advantages are numerous and too many
> > to go into here. DC is cheaper and that is the MAIN reason most go
> > for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the majority use chep
> > controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of. My 2 cents
> > with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed conversion
> > specialist.
>
> !?!?!
>
> Cruisin, you seem to have considerably misunderstood Steve's point. He
> simply said that in his experience, the AC EVs built by the major auto
> companies were essentially non-repairable (except by replacing entire
> assemblies). The DC EVs that used series motors were far simpler, and so
> much easier to fix.
>
> May I suggest that perhaps you are a bit out of touch with the vehicles
> that are being built, driven, and discussed on this list?
>
> What have you been doing for "44 years as an EV and hybrid instructor
> and licensed conversion specialist?" The Toyota Prius and Honda Insight
> didn't even come out until 2000; before that there were no highway
> hybrid vehicles. Thus, no hybrid instructors. And, what exactly is a
> "licensed conversion specialist"? There is no such thing in most states,
> unless you mean licensed to do something other than EV conversions (like
> a licensed automotive mechanic).
>
> You sound as if you only became aware of EVs recently, and only know
> about the EVs produced by the major auto companies. You talk as if the
> only other EVs that exist are cheap toy scooters and Chinese electric
> bicycles.
>
> That ignores 100 years of mass produced, successful, reliable, efficient
> EVs that have been produced; everything from railroad engines, trucks,
> buses, industrial vehicles, personal movers, and on-the-road electric
> cars. Virtually all of them used DC drive systems.
>
> The Curtis 1238 has only been out a few years, and so far has a very
> small market penetration. The large majority of Curtis controllers are
> still *DC* motor controllers. Also, the 1238 is an industrial fork lift
> controller; it's too small for anything but a very light low speed vehicle.
>
> What do you feel the advantages of an AC drive system are? Efficiency?
> Horsepower? Torque? RPM range? Regen? I suspect you'll find that both AC
> and DC drives offer all of these features, and are just as capable when
> priced the same.
>
> The *intrinsic* differences between AC and DC drive systems are subtle
> and of interest mainly to engineers and academics. But as a real-world
> practical matter, AC drives are perceived as more glamorous and
> higher-tech; thus they can command a higher price. DC drives tend to be
> simpler, older, lower-tech; and thus are lower priced. But both do the job.
>
> It's a bit like comparing gasoline engines to diesel engines. Each has
> certain technical advantages or disadvantages, and each has tended to
> migrate into certain market niches. Each has advocates that fervently
> believe that their fuel choice is the best, and that the other fuel is
> worthless junk. However, both fuels fundamentally do the same job, and
> the average driver couldn't care less if his car burns gasoline or
> diesel fuel.
>
> And, which engine a customer gets is largely driven by marketing and
> availability; not rationality. Rarely is the customer given any choice
> in the matter.
> --
> Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
> and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: Cruisin
>Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When you have
been in this business as long as I, you will understand the subject we are
talking about.<

Subject said fb1-4001 motor failure ,, is that not a advanced 9" dc m=
otor ?

>Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's were DC at first,<

Ok we are talking about bike's or scooters , not 120v or higher car
conversions .

>AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238 controller that controls half of
the world using AC,<

I am working on a ac 35motor with a Curtis 1238 right now. Somebody
before me lost or pulled out the temp sensor and rpm plug .. Do you
Know where I can get the temp sensor and plug .. or is there any
chance it will work without it . (the temp sensor , I know it won't
work with out rpm sensor ) .


>they ALL went to AC even though it cost more.<

I've been lucky to work on a few AC drives with the curtis 1238 , It
seemsome whatunder powered in a car copaired to a 1k zilla or even a
500amp solatron Jr.

>advantages are numerous and too many to go into here.<

I believe this is the place, I would look at what ever AC drive you
think would work good in a car rf pick up , somebody whois trying to
decide between a zilla or Solaton and a 9" series motor or a curtis
1238 for there highway conversion might want to know.... what You
think.

>DC is cheaper and that
is the MAIN reason most go for it.<

What AC drive do you use in your EV, is it on the EValbum,

>If that wasnt the case, why do the
majority use chep controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of.<

Majority seem to be using Zilla , Solutions , Warp and Curtis's for
highway car and pick up's , are you not having good luck with them ?

>My 2 cents with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed
conversion specialist.<

44 years of EVing makes me think of Bob Rice , ..Compared to you
and BobI'm rather new at this and trying to learn enough to make a
living at itso ifmy "off the wall and inaccurate comments " =
make
me sound like a know it all , That is not how I meant it , it would be
to bad if talking about AC vs DC motors got banned because of a
passionate debate, but that being said I'm stillkind of glad we
aren't still talking or explaining over unity generators to people.
Please feel free to enlighten me and others with info from real world
experiences and links tonew parts. I had a Advance DC 9" in my first
EV and as far as I know its still going , 18 years or so later .


--
Steve Clunn 772-971-0533
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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