[tomofreno]

Originally Posted by ruckus

These guys are pulling your leg...

I drove the 37 Jaguar 90 miles the other day and only used about 16kw of the 25kw pack. It is small and light, but definitely not aerodynamic. A civic/Talon would have used much less..

But I wasn't going 70...Speed Kills (your batteries)

No, you're pulling his leg. 178kWh/mile in a Jag? Net downhill at 35 mph? I use about 250 Wh/mile in a 2260 lb Suzuki Swift at 60 mph, and about 180 Wh/mile at 35 mph.

[NintendoKD]

Originally Posted by gottdi

Wheel covers are OK. Don't bother with the Solar Panels. You will just ruin the vehicle for what it will require to do that. Your ideas may be valid to a point but if you do not have the skills just leave it be. If you want solar just build a solar parking stall with enough solar to actually charge your vehicle. I am quite sure the mirrors on an 06 or newer Civic are just fine. Again if you don't have the skills leave it be. Put in enough batteries and a good enough controller and go have fun. Oh did I mention gobs of money?

You forgot the "GOBS OF MONEY" thing, oh! wait, there it is, AGAIN! LOL

[NintendoKD]

Originally Posted by ruckus

These guys are pulling your leg...

I drove the 37 Jaguar 90 miles the other day and only used about 16kw of the 25kw pack. It is small and light, but definitely not aerodynamic. A civic/Talon would have used much less..

But I wasn't going 70...Speed Kills (your batteries)

and your brushes, and bearings, and .... well you get the idea.

[ruckus]

Well, maybe I used 18kw instead of 16. We are just getting the gauges hooked up, so it is a bit of a guess based on battery voltage. Like I said, I didn't go 70. More like 50-55. That feels FAST in this car. 70 feels like 100.

It is a tiny sports car, not the huge sedan you show...

www.northvalleyev.com

If you really want to go 65 for 100+ miles you either need to pick up a charge at work or get a hybrid.

Or pack a lot of lithium in a VERY aerodynamic car. Fighting the wind is where most of your energy will go at 65mph.

[nulluser]

Here is what I did for my electric bike, and it ended up pretty close for low speeds:

Pack voltage * Pack Capacity * 50% DOD * 65% peukert = Available Energy

72V * 55a-h * 0.5 * 0.65 = 1287 watt-hours Available

I estimated (from evalbum) that similar bikes average 150 watt-hours per mile at 50 mph. That would give me 9 miles at 50 mph. Likewise, the bikes are around 70 watt-hours per mile at 25 mph, giving a range of 18 miles.

These ended up being very accurate.

I did not take into account the different peukert losses at the different speeds. In reality the range is around lower at the higher speeds. However, there are fewer starts and stops and the higher speeds...

This will give a decent rough estimate. The online calculators can take you from 'pretty accurate' to 'pretty damn accurate'.



Here is the actual data:

Speed Efficiency Range
mph W-h/mile Miles
Measured Measured Estimated
5 42.0 30.6
10 51.0 25.2
15 66.7 19.3
20 60.0 21.5
25 68.0 18.9
30 73.3 17.6
35 74.3 17.3
40 90.0 14.3
45 124.4 10.3
48 139.6 9.2

[EVEngineeer]

If I put lets say <10k and then the cost for batteries. How many lithium ion batteries would I need and which type would be best and the cheapest? I do not know to much at all about batteries. Also, if I was to add more than I need, would that extend battery life? If there is supposedly 2k full cycles of life in the batteries, then if I do not use them up to their max point ever, then would I be correct? Also, to the person who said good luck finding room in the Civic.... Isn't there room under the hood and where the spare wheel goes. I would probably get rid of the extra wheel and add run flats. I know that the lithiums are small in comparison to the lead acids so how much room would I need? There should be enough, if not I was thinking about rearranging the back seats so that way there is more room. I was thinking, if possible to remove the middle seat. Then I could make a tower of batteries in the middle (obviously covered somehow so no one dies), kinda like the center console in the front of the car where the driver is.

[DIYguy]

Originally Posted by EVEngineeer

If I put lets say <10k and then the cost for batteries. How many lithium ion batteries would I need and which type would be best and the cheapest? I do not know to much at all about batteries. Also, if I was to add more than I need, would that extend battery life? If there is supposedly 2k full cycles of life in the batteries, then if I do not use them up to their max point ever, then would I be correct? Also, to the person who said good luck finding room in the Civic.... Isn't there room under the hood and where the spare wheel goes. I would probably get rid of the extra wheel and add run flats. I know that the lithiums are small in comparison to the lead acids so how much room would I need? There should be enough, if not I was thinking about rearranging the back seats so that way there is more room. I was thinking, if possible to remove the middle seat. Then I could make a tower of batteries in the middle (obviously covered somehow so no one dies), kinda like the center console in the front of the car where the driver is.

Hey I thought you are an EVEngineer????? lmao. Contrary to your statement, and FWIW, lithium prismatics are not much different than lead with respect to volume. Mass yes, volume. . . not so much.

[Ziggythewiz]

They are lower volume in terms of usable AH. How much smaller depends on the leads you're comparing them to. Also keep in mind it takes 4 lithium cells to replace 1 12V lead battery.

1x12V 125AH floodie > 4x60 AH LifePo4:
60 lbs > 22 lbs
877"^3 > 376"^3

3x8V 135AH floodie > 8x60 AH LifePo4:
189 lbs > 44
2230"^3 > 752"^2

So around 1/3-1/4 the weight for lithium vs lead and 1/2-1/3 for the space.

These are just illustrative examples, for decent range and performance you'll want at least 100 AH or larger cells.

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by DIYguy

lithium prismatics are not much different than lead with respect to volume. Mass yes, volume. . . not so much.

Hold on there... They are quite a bit different. First, they put out a much higher C-rating with much less sag. This means you can "undersize" the pack and kinda get away with it. By this I mean going high voltage with smaller batteries to get high performance with limited range. This can't be done with lead because the only size is big and heavy.

I definitely agree that more is better, just saying the small form factor of lithium is a little more flexible than lead.

[DIYguy]

Originally Posted by ruckus

Hold on there... They are quite a bit different. First, they put out a much higher C-rating with much less sag. This means you can "undersize" the pack and kinda get away with it. By this I mean going high voltage with smaller batteries to get high performance with limited range. This can't be done with lead because the only size is big and heavy.

I definitely agree that more is better, just saying the small form factor of lithium is a little more flexible than lead.

I never said they were't different. Of course they are different in every way. My point was a generalization regarding the size, nothing else. Many newcomers think lithium is significantly smaller. Of course it is significantly lighter and u can use smaller packs.