[EVEngineeer]

I made a mistake the 50k comment was not in this thread, but people did say it to me in other threads, I just can't remember where it is now. But someone earlier in this thread did say I need "Gobs of money".

I know that I can't get someone to work $10 an hour, but I can get someone for about $50 an hour. I know a lot of people though who would do me a favor and give me service for real cheap or free. I know people who do not charge much for their time, but they make a small profit off of the parts.

[Ziggythewiz]

The $25-30K it takes to build a 100 mile EV certainly qualifies as "Gobs of money" to me. It's really not that complicated. High mileage merely requires more batteries, it doesn't necessarily mean better build quality, though that is typically found in such vehicles (like corbin's bug or etischer's passat) because when the total package gets that expensive, making the little things look really nice doesn't cost that much.

A 100 mile EV definitely puts you in OEM territory cost wise, so unless you're really an engineer type you may be better off just going that route as OEM has a $7500 advantage over DIY.

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by SandRailEV

Sounds like it's time for EVEngineeer to do some engineering for himself.. There's everything on this site one would need to design a reasonable EV without even being an engineer... There's also enough supplier links to the parts and supplies to build one. What am I missing here???

Yes, it is not even "engineering". More like some basic math and assembly. The engineers already designed everything needed.

If you really want to go 70mph for 100miles you should not be even thinking about cars like the passat (a brick). I already gave you the short list. I guarantee a Honda CRX hf will go MUCH further and faster on the same battery. Wind resistance is EVERYTHING at 70mph. Are you aware that wind resistance is drag coefficient MULTIPLIED by square area? 2 cars might both be listed as .29, but if one has 2 extra square feet of frontal area it will be an absolute dog compared to the other.

Did you go to the eccomodder calculator I linked and run a few cars? I can't believe you would consider a passat if you had done that.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero...resistance.php
This is the single most valuable tool you will find online. Don't round the numbers down. Always round up or you will be sorry.

Everybody is here to help you, but you have to show some initiative. If you can't bother to follow the link and run a few easy calcs then how can you expect us to spoon feed you?

[TigerNut]

EVE, it strikes me that you're being somewhat naive about the money aspect, about people's willingness to devote time to your cause, and also about how long it will take to do even a 'catalog' EV conversion. By that I mean one where you can buy most of the components essentially 'off the rack' and there is only a minimum of custom fabrication required on your car.
etischer's Garage entry (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/41) shows 500 hours build time, and it's pretty apparent (at least to me) that he did not start from knowing very little about power electronics, car mechanics, or metal fabrication. At $50 per hour, 500 hours works out to $25000. Now, you may say that you can get some or all of the work done as a favor. But, 500 hours, at 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, comes to nearly three months. How many people do you know that can devote that much of their spare time or donate that much of their work time?

It's better to start trying some of your own experiments and fabrication work, even if it's not currently going towards an electric car. Doing things is a much better learning experience, than just reading and directing others to make your dream come true.

In the past 25 years I've been playing with cars, I've learned to do oxyacetylene cutting and welding; TIG and MIG welding; sheetmetal bending and forming; fiberglass, bodyfilling, and painting. I own a milling machine and lathe so that I can make most of my own steel, aluminum, and plastic parts, and I've rebuilt engines, transmissions, and differentials both in stock and highly modified form. I've built my own tube-frame race car (AE86 Corolla) from the ground up. Through all that I've had many highly skilled and knowledgeable people help me - not by doing the work for me, but by letting me watch what they were doing or by answering my questions and then by trying stuff myself, until I learned how. The hands-on process teaches you much more than just how to turn a wrench, and there is no substitute for putting in the time in the shop.

[EVEngineeer]

I was not considering the passat.

I just found this too. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/286
This truck weighs about 1,500lbs more than what I would get if I had lets say a honda civic 2006+. The donor cost is 4k, I would get it for under 1k (closer to free if not free). If it cost him 30k to build this. I'm sure if I got the same stuff put in to the civic, the car would be able to travel faster and farther. The only differences between the two vehicles would be boxy truck vs. aerodynamic civic and air conditioning (a must in Florida). Now the question is how much farther and faster? My guess would be over 90 mph, which btw the 87 is fine. I do not need to drive faster than 75 mph. If he gets 65 miles range at 55mph, I would guess 75 miles range at 65 mph. That's actually what I need. 75 miles range at 65mph, but I want the car to be a little better than that. One for a cushion and two because you should not drain the battery fully.

[ruckus]

DUDE! Why are you "guessing" I GAVE YOU THE CALCULATOR. RUN SOME NUMBERS. It took me all of 30 seconds to calculate the proper battery size for your car. I am waiting for you to come back and say, "I think I need this many kwh for such and such car, is this correct?"

Or even come back with, "I don't understand how to convert watts to kw", or "what do I put in this part of the calculator".

ANYTHING other than "I guess..."

[dladd]

Originally Posted by EVEngineeer

I was not considering the passat.

I just found this too. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/286
This truck weighs about 1,500lbs more than what I would get if I had lets say a honda civic 2006+. The donor cost is 4k, I would get it for under 1k (closer to free if not free). If it cost him 30k to build this.

Once again, you are ignoring labor and personal skill level. His batteries alone would be $16k (65 200ah cells), dual Kostov 11's and a Soliton is what, ~$8k? That only leaves $6k for everything else! BMS, charger, wiring, labor, rack fabrication, and all the little stuff.

Stop looking at what other people say it costs and price it out yourself. And don't compare a Land Rover to a Civic, that just doesn't make sense!

Here's an interesting one to me, http://www.evalbum.com/2224

It's interesting because it's an identical battery pack to what I have in my car. It's a bit lighter, runs regen, and I suspect he's much more into hypermiling than I am. However, he states a 100 mile max range, with 80 miles being typical. And there's plenty of data on his page to back that claim up. Total cost is listed at ~$25k which seems a bit high, but I think includes his original battery pack too.

With a basic DC system, normal driving, and the same cells I get ~50 miles real world range to 80% DOD. Quite a difference... Just sayin, there are lots of data points on evalbum. some will be more applicable to your situation than others.

Most importantly, start a spreadsheet. List all the components you need. Be detailed, list them ALL. Down to the lugs and crimp tool. Include tax and shipping. Make it as complete as you can. Add in the expected labor costs for each individual part that you will need help with (in my case, I can't weld, so I paid a welder every time I built a new rack component). See what you end up with. When you've done the research and made the spreadsheet, post it here for people to offer their input.

[Ziggythewiz]

I think this has become another troll thread like the wind powered EV one.

So and so did it for $X, but for me it'll be cheaper.
He used a truck, but I'll fit all that and more in a little car.
I'll just ignore all advice and just keep making up numbers and asking for solutions.

[EVEngineeer]

to ruckus: I'm sorry but that calculator is to much for me. It's difficult to find the correct numbers and I know that I should not round it. The only thing that I know is correct was the Cd at 0.31 and that's about all I got exactly. I believe the weight of the car would vary all the time, so I was going to use 3,500lbs, but I think it would be best to have a worst case scenario for everything, so that way I am not surprised in a bad way in the end. So, I think 4,000lbs is a better number. I only weigh about 125lbs, I'm pretty skinny. I do not have the car yet, because I want to get everything straightened out in my mind and in the mean time save more money, so I will be much better prepared. It may be a month it may be five years before I get around to doing this project. So, who knows what car I will get, all I know is that it will be real cheap or free and it will be big enough to hold 2+ people and have a place to store things like groceries (aka trunk lol).

dladd: great suggestion. I have been taking notes, so I will have to eventually put it together on a spreadsheet, which is what I was going to do anyways, but I guess I could get started on that sooner. It won't be very complete though, do to my lack of knowledge.

ziggythewiz: I was taught in school to figure things out on my own, but at this level it's pretty damn hard to figure things out, without the proper knowledge behind it. So the best way for me to learn is to ask questions as bizarre as they may be. I have not asked all of my questions, because I did learn some things and I did find some things on my own. I had to learn on my own, before I found this forum. I did not know this forum existed until I think the day I signed up for it, if not then it was only a couple of days before at the most.

[TigerNut]

Originally Posted by EVEngineeer

to ruckus: I'm sorry but that calculator is to much for me. It's difficult to find the correct numbers and I know that I should not round it. The only thing that I know is correct was the Cd at 0.31 and that's about all I got exactly. I believe the weight of the car would vary all the time, so I was going to use 3,500lbs, but I think it would be best to have a worst case scenario for everything, so that way I am not surprised in a bad way in the end. So, I think 4,000lbs is a better number. I only weigh about 125lbs, I'm pretty skinny. I do not have the car yet, because I want to get everything straightened out in my mind and in the mean time save more money, so I will be much better prepared. It may be a month it may be five years before I get around to doing this project. So, who knows what car I will get, all I know is that it will be real cheap or free and it will be big enough to hold 2+ people and have a place to store things like groceries (aka trunk lol).

dladd: great suggestion. I have been taking notes, so I will have to eventually put it together on a spreadsheet, which is what I was going to do anyways, but I guess I could get started on that sooner. It won't be very complete though, do to my lack of knowledge.

ziggythewiz: I was taught in school to figure things out on my own, but at this level it's pretty damn hard to figure things out, without the proper knowledge behind it. So the best way for me to learn is to ask questions as bizarre as they may be. I have not asked all of my questions, because I did learn some things and I did find some things on my own. I had to learn on my own, before I found this forum. I did not know this forum existed until I think the day I signed up for it, if not then it was only a couple of days before at the most.

You have to figure the real world into your calculations. That's both a limitation and a help... for instance, the gross weight limit on any Civic is not going to be more than about 3400 pounds - the total load capacity is about 800 pounds, including driver, passengers, fuel, and cargo. The curb weight of a 2006 Civic is 2600 pounds; therefore, if you count yourself, a passenger, and cargo as (let's say) 400 pounds, your battery weight can be no more than 400 pounds (for reference, a gallon of fuel weighs about 7 pounds, so a stock Civic can probably carry about 110 pounds of fuel, max). That battery pack in glaurung's range rover weighs about 900 pounds... there are advantages to trucks and larger sedans that have big cargo capacity.

If you exceed the gross vehicle weight rating, you can't get your car licensed.

For the other parameters in that range estimator, you can search around and find worst and best case figures that would apply to your target vehicle, and then see how that affects your range. You may be surprised that some components affect the range much more than others.