[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by njloof

If it's not a large cost to add, I'd prefer it; there's already a wide selection of adapters for a variety of transmissions that mate to the Warp mounts/shaft, so it would give us many options.

That's a good idea, +1

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by nucleus

Ruckus, we need weight info.

I am putting together a table with all the info, but real quick here are the weights:

22kw 46kg 101 lb... 4.6 lbs/kw
30kw 63kg 139 lb... 4.6 lbs/kw
35kw 70kg 154 lb... 4.4 lbs/kw
40kw 75kg 165 lb... 4.1 lbs/kw
45kw 78kg 172 lb... 3.8 lbs/kw
55kw 85kg 187 lb... 3.4 lbs/kw
60kw 85kg 187 lb... 3.1 lbs/kw

For comparison, here are standard brushed motor ratings and weight:

8".. 16kw 107 lb... 6.7 lbs/kw
9".. 19kw 143 lb... 7.5 lbs/kw
11" 26kw 233 lb... 9.0 lbs/kw !

You can see the continuous power rating is much higher in the water-cooled brushless motors and their weight is much less.

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by ruckus

...
For comparison, here are standard brushed motor ratings and weight:

8".. 16kw 107 lb... 6.7 lbs/kw
9".. 19kw 143 lb... 7.5 lbs/kw
11" 26kw 233 lb... 9.0 lbs/kw !

You can see the continuous power rating is much higher in the water-cooled brushless motors and their weight is much less.

Those numbers appear to be derived from the 72V constant voltage curves, which paints a particularly unflattering picture given that the commutation limit for, e.g., the WarP motors is 192V, and the recommended limit is 170V. At 170V and keeping the current at the 1 hour rating of 250A the WarP-9 delivers 42.5kW for a power to weight ratio of 3.36 lbs/kw.

[ruckus]

Actually, the 8" and 9" values are for the ADC motors which are rated at 120v. Yes, it is too bad Warfield does not rate their motors at a useful voltage.

I listed the manufacturer's ratings. They are what they are. Your numbers are undocumented speculation.

Surely you know that the continuous kw rating of an electric motor is entirely based on its ability to get rid of heat. Raising the voltage does not improve cooling. The continuous kw rating remains almost the same. Peak power is higher, but not continuous power. This can be seen in the 55kw 320v motor and the 60kw 540v motor. The continuous kw ratings are hardly different. (40% increase in voltage = 17% increase in continuous kw rating which is 9% due to a higher rpm rating and thus only 8% actual increase in continuous power)

Sure, I could extrapolate the data of any motor to undocumented voltages/amperages and claim all sorts of crazy power using modified cooling systems, but that defeats the whole purpose of a manufacturer spec sheet, doesn't it?

Cheers

Edit: Since you don't believe anything I say, how about listening to Major? Here is his assesment (post #3):
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ori-34418.html

[somanywelps]

Originally Posted by ruckus

Hey folks,
Finally have some rough prices. These are 'CFR' which means it includes freight, but not duty fees and import taxes which 'likely' amount to $1-300 based on the size and cost of the motor you purchase.

It seems that we will be able to group together with the folks in New Zealand for a bulk buy. This will get everybody a better price. The U.S.-bound motors will be directly shipped to the port of Seattle where I will pick them up. We can mix and match motor sizes and still get the bulk price. The ratings are in KW which you can multiply by 1.34 to get hp. The manufacturer says the peak power for very short duration (a 10-20 second drag race) is 4x the rated kw. The price somewhat depends on the size of the order. The first price column is for 5-10 motors and the 2nd column is for 10-15 motors.

Power 5+... 10+... $/kw Volts
22kw $1955 $1855 $84 3-400
30kw $2295 $2175 $73 3-400
35kw $2625 $2490 $71 3-400
40kw $2830 $2680 $69 3-400
45kw $2910 $2760 $61 3-400
55kw $3385 $3210 $58 3-400
60kw $4050 $3840 $64 5-600
Any motor size can be special ordered in higher voltage but will cost a bit more (10-15%).

The Scott controller will be priced about $3000 for the standard 400 amp version. The 600 amp version will likely be around $500 more which is not bad for 50% more power. The high voltage version doesn't have a price yet, but will likely be another couple hundred more.

It sounds like the order will be placed in the next couple of weeks. If you are interested, please pm me and we can work out the details of payment and shipping to your location. The prices above are rounded to the $5 for simplicity and include absolutely no increase from me. This is the estimated price off the boat but before customs and duties and taxes. These prices are subject to change by the manufacturer and shipper and may go up or down slightly.

Cheers

Do you have the torque curves (specifically for the 55kw motor).

Also I assume the RPM ratings are different.

Are these still BLDC?

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by njloof

there's already a wide selection of adapters for a variety of transmissions that mate to the Warp mounts/shaft...

1. These motors have a different and much larger/stronger (13" dia vs 8.4" dia) bolt pattern than a Warp 11, so those adapters would not work anyway. (well, maybe with an adapter to the adapter )

2. The shaft is starting out somewhere around 1.6-1.8". With shafts, bigger is better. I am not sure if it is a good idea to cut that down to match the rinky-dink 1.125" of a Warp 11. If the shaft breaks, your day is pretty much ruined. We must assume the shaft is properly sized by the manufacturer to handle the torque of the motor.

3. If we had it turned down to say 1.5", 1-5/8, or 1-3/4, a standard taper-lock bush would go right on and bolt up to the same coupler/yoke. That is the beauty of using separate bushes in the taper-lock system.

Still finding out out pricing on shaft mods and if they have couplings available...

Edit: here is broken Warp 1.125" shaft:

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by somanywelps

Do you have the torque curves (specifically for the 55kw motor).

Also I assume the RPM ratings are different.

Are these still BLDC?

All the motors are rated at 320vdc 3200rpm except the 60kw motor is rated at 540vdc 3500rpm.

The torque 'curve' (more like a table top) is in the thread above. Please keep in mind that the test was done with a 120kva, 375amp controller. That is why it is only ~420nm and suddenly tapers off at 110kw. The Scott drive is nominally 400amps at 400vdc for 160kva, so you would see quite a bit more power using the Scott controller. The 600 amp Scott controller should put out a nominal 240kva for a dramatic increase in peak torque and power.

I think it is much better to dyno a drive system than to use empty calculations based on a spread sheet using unknown test parameters, but if you want me to extrapolate, here are the numbers I come up with:

55kw motor at 320v, 190A makes 164nm (this is manufacturer's continuous rating).
with the 400v, 400A controller it calculates to 431nm max torque
with the 400v, 600A controller it calculates to 650nm max torque.

Now these are just calculations. In reality you have battery sag and motor/controller efficiency goes down as amps go up, so figure a bit less.

If you run the same type of totally unproven calcs on the 540v motor you get:

60kw motor at 540v, 111A makes 164nm (continuous rating)
with 600v, 400A controller it calcs to 650nm (sound familiar? see above)
with 600v, 600A controller it calcs to 984nm.

Yes, those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous to me. That is why I want to put one on the dyno. I am not a big fan of empty speculation.

Now you see why I recommend keeping the shaft as large as possible.

[Bowser330]

Tesla Roadster Sport 2.5
215kw peak
295ftlb
2,723lbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

55kw rated X4 = 220kw peak w/ greater low-end torque!

[somanywelps]

Originally Posted by ruckus

All the motors are rated at 320vdc 3200rpm except the 60kw motor is rated at 540vdc 3500rpm.

The torque 'curve' (more like a table top) is in the thread above. Please keep in mind that the test was done with a 120kva, 375amp controller. That is why it is only ~420nm and suddenly tapers off at 110kw. The Scott drive is nominally 400amps at 400vdc for 160kva, so you would see quite a bit more power using the Scott controller. The 600 amp Scott controller should put out a nominal 240kva for a dramatic increase in peak torque and power.

I think it is much better to dyno a drive system than to use empty calculations based on a spread sheet using unknown test parameters, but if you want me to extrapolate, here are the numbers I come up with:

55kw motor at 320v, 190A makes 164nm (this is manufacturer's continuous rating).
with the 400v, 400A controller it calculates to 431nm max torque
with the 400v, 600A controller it calculates to 650nm max torque.

Now these are just calculations. In reality you have battery sag and motor/controller efficiency goes down as amps go up, so figure a bit less.

If you run the same type of totally unproven calcs on the 540v motor you get:

60kw motor at 540v, 111A makes 164nm (continuous rating)
with 600v, 400A controller it calcs to 650nm (sound familiar? see above)
with 600v, 600A controller it calcs to 984nm.

Yes, those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous to me. That is why I want to put one on the dyno. I am not a big fan of empty speculation.

Now you see why I recommend keeping the shaft as large as possible.

Those are the same numbers I calculated out. I guess we wait for the dyno.

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by ruckus

Edit: here is broken Warp 1.125" shaft:

Which was the result of a bad alignment due to a poorly built adapter plate. A larger shaft would have broken eventually, or caused something else to break.