[ruckus]

Originally Posted by somanywelps

THE TORQUE IS HIGH, BUT THE KW rating is shit.

Dude! You are looking at the wrong chart which is configured to 1800rpm, not the pdf? Industrial motors are officially rated at 1800 and 3600rpms and they use different wire connections for the different rpm ranges. Look at the pdf. (or don't) The rating is 500ft lbs and 86 hp at 3600rpm. 95 hp max. That will eat your Kostov-soliton thingy in a highway race.

Yes, it is expensive but it shows the power potential (and it's not even water cooled!). The Chinese could make an exact copy for less than half the dough. It just hasn't been done yet. (or maybe it has and is lurking out there..)

Originally Posted by somanywelps

2) You keep ignoring that a K11+Soliton 1 will eat the Scott thing alive, EVEN IF IT WORKS AS ADVERTISED.

Actually, I have spec sheets showing the motor pumped up to 85kg and 540v, 160hp peak, 80hp continuous, and a decent 500nm torque. If I can get my hands on one with a "custom" controller I will attempt to push the voltage/torque limit even further.

I look forward to the race with your Kostov.

[Batterypoweredtoad]

Lol-Oh yeah? Well my imaginary system can beat up your imaginary system.

[somanywelps]

Originally Posted by ruckus

Dude! You are looking at the wrong chart which is configured to 1800rpm, not the pdf? Industrial motors are officially rated at 1800 and 3600rpms and they use different wire connections for the different rpm ranges. Look at the pdf. (or don't) The rating is 500ft lbs and 86 hp at 3600rpm. 95 hp max. That will eat your Kostov-soliton thingy in a highway race.

Yes, it is expensive but it shows the power potential (and it's not even water cooled!). The Chinese could make an exact copy for less than half the dough. It just hasn't been done yet. (or maybe it has and is lurking out there..)



Actually, I have spec sheets showing the motor pumped up to 85kg and 540v, 160hp peak, 80hp continuous, and a decent 500nm torque. If I can get my hands on one with a "custom" controller I will attempt to push the voltage/torque limit even further.

I look forward to the race with your Kostov.

The kostov+ soliton 1 spits out ~360 HP at the shaft (~420hp prior to efficiency losses) with a soliton 1 at max. (versus your 95hp max)

You still haven't answered what controller you're going to use.

Also, lol $10,000 for your motor.

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by somanywelps

The kostov+ soliton 1 spits out ~360 HP at the shaft

For how many seconds before destruction? Dyno data?

I think you misunderstand the difference between industrial ratings and civillian product ratings. The industrial ratings are extremely conservative because they run machines that keep people alive like mining air pumps. If you push your motor to 4x the rating and blow it, big deal. If a Powertec motor fails, PEOPLE DIE. There is a magnitude of difference.

I am sure the Kostov+soliton is very fast. Like I said, I look forward to the race whether I win or not I will still be grinning. How about next year at EVCCON? See you there?

p.s. It is not "my" motor, only a working example for those who claim BLDC suck.

[dladd]

Originally Posted by ruckus

p.s. It is not "my" motor, only a working example for those who claim BLDC suck.

I think you are creating this drama in your own mind. Generally speaking, people have not been claiming that BLDC suck, in fact quite the opposite. Most are very interested in it, and see the potential. The claims I've seen are simply that user available BLDC is not there yet. Brushed DC is.

I have a DC motor. It was a proven entity that I knew would offer the performance I wanted. I have no allegiance to DC, I just wanted what would work at a good pricepoint. I am thinking of trying some of these new Helwig brushes to see what the fuss is about. I don't have any overheating issues, but if they really improve efficiency that would be worth a few hundred bucks to try out.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Netgain, but it you seem to be taking the anger thing a bit too far.

[somanywelps]

Originally Posted by ruckus

For how many seconds before destruction? Dyno data?

It's rated for 10 seconds at that power, so if you keep it under that it should be fine.

At that power level you're already far over 100mph.

Originally Posted by ruckus

I think you misunderstand the difference between industrial ratings and civillian product ratings. The industrial ratings are extremely conservative because they run machines that keep people alive like mining air pumps. If you push your motor to 4x the rating and blow it, big deal. If a Powertec motor fails, PEOPLE DIE. There is a magnitude of difference.

Sorry, I don't believe this bit. You'll need real sources.

Also pretty sure netgain/warfield and kostov motors are industrially rated if you look at some of their other motors.

You still haven't given a viable controller.

[ruckus]

No anger, no drama.

I have replied with facts and examples. I even make positive suggestions that might help solve the problems.

It would be a lot easier for me if Brushed motors were as awesome as they pretend. I wouldn't have to search the world over for a reliable solution. I certainly wouldn't have to deal with the constant arguments of those in denial.

This issue is more about human psychology than a specific technology. Most people become fans of what they have. They just can't help it. It is human nature. Since most people on the forum have Series DC, it has become a fan-club for those motors. Anyone who brings up issues, failures, or alternatives gets shouted down or driven away to another forum.

I have nothing to gain from bringing up these issues except that perhaps the motor companies will make design alterations that solve them. Would that not be better for everybody? All folks have to do is acknowledge there is a problem and work together to solve it. Instead it is just a constant stream of denial and misinformation.

[Batterypoweredtoad]

Where is anyone saying brushed motors are the best motors? They are the available motors within a diy-er's budget. The diy ev world is in a shift right now where people are having to switch to a more power tolerant brushed motor because the controllers have gotten better. If you were happy with a old school 144 volt 500 amp curtis controller you could keep a 7" or 9" brushed motor alive for as long as you wanted. If you want a Soliton 1 you had better step up to a bigger motor. If you want a combo that you cannot kill you should probably use a hefty 11" behind a Jr or turn down the settings on your Soliton 1.

All the available brushless systems sell a matched motor and controller pair that doesn't push the motor much more than its continuous rating. Sure your motor will survive forever, but if you can afford it, it will be a slow setup. That slow setup will be easily matched by a brushed setup that is equally as indestructible and cheaper. A K11 Alpha or Warp 11HV with a junior will be equally as reliable and outrun a Curtis HPEV system for less money.

Just a FYI: Tessarect was one of the first to point out that the commonly used 9" brushed motors live a very very short life at 1000Amps. He even provided a few videos of said destruction.

Right now you are claiming the superiority of a motor that isn't available at even remotely reasonable prices and using a custom controller that doesn't exist yet to show what the motor can do.

[ruckus]

Originally Posted by Batterypoweredtoad

Where is anyone saying brushed motors are the best motors? They are the available motors within a diy-er's budget

I agree with you on most of what you say. I think the issue is nobody wants to admit there is a rash of failures happening right now. Everyone is pretending the EV solution is easier than ever. 11" motor and Soliton and you are set. End of discussion. The problem with that pat answer is two-fold:
1) You are talking about a $6,000 setup which suddenly opens up the potential for other options.
2) That is a lot of money on a motor that is suffering a high rate of failures.

Nobody wants to discuss that Tim Catellier is on his 3rd motor within a short time. Sure they were replace under warranty. That is great. But they still FAILED leaving him stranded. Would you give your grandmother that drive system? I wouldn't. If folks would discuss the issues and propose solutions, that would be great. Instead they deny the existence of problems and attack any alternatives by misrepresenting their cost and power. I don't think that will help the EV movement in the long run.

Cheers

[somanywelps]

Originally Posted by ruckus

I agree with you on most of what you say. I think the issue is nobody wants to admit there is a rash of failures happening right now. Everyone is pretending the EV solution is easier than ever. 11" motor and Soliton and you are set. End of discussion. The problem with that pat answer is two-fold:
1) You are talking about a $6,000 setup which suddenly opens up the potential for other options.

It's more like $5400 for a K11+S1, and that's for high performance sports cars.

When you go down to BLDC power with kelly's and LVs it's like $1500-2000

Originally Posted by ruckus

2) That is a lot of money on a motor that is suffering a high rate of failures.

Still not seeing the links from you for the kostovs or netgains. I would bet they were running them FAR over rating (including overload rating).

Originally Posted by ruckus

Nobody wants to discuss that Tim Catellier is on his 3rd motor within a short time. Sure they were replace under warranty.

Source link?

Also hopefully what he was running it with/at.

Still not seeing the controller you were planning to use with your $10000 BL motor.