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  #1  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:01 PM
wilkes5 wilkes5 is offline
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Default Best Way to Go Lithium?

Talked to a supplier of Ev parts and was told only two places in the world where lithium is found...China and another place close to Iran. Was thinking "fantastic" a complete monopoloy of communisum and more communisum.

Planning a AC performace conversion and was hoping to find as many "MADE IN THE USA" componets as possible. Would like to us lithium batteries and was wondering what the best options are in terms of having someone make a custom pack or assembling one yourself. Remeber price/quality ratio and the made in usa preference. Thank you.

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Last edited by wilkes5; 06-17-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

A123 has a plant in the USA...don't know if they produce much besides recalls...or you can get the foreign ones with Made in USA printed on, is that good enough?

Other big names for OEM batteries such as LG and Panasonic may operate stateside factories but I'm not aware of any reliable made in USA source for the LiFePo4 that most of us prefer.
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:55 PM
wilkes5 wilkes5 is offline
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Have emailed A123 a couple of times asking for information regarding a private purchase of lithium batteries for EV, and no response. Have also called and the voice message says the company is more focused on large volume orders.

Try and stay away from "recalls" .

So..LiFePo4 is the best for AC/regen/EV applications? And LG and Panasonic make batteries like such? If so, going to research on both companies and compare to the lithium batteries listed on EV parts websites (some straight from China factories).

Like mentioned in the opening of the thread, is it better to buy mulitple batteries and DIY it together or purchasing a "pack" either directly or special order. Probably more expensive for the pack and if it's easy to DIY the lithium batteries together, then purchasing seperatly is a go.

Did see a couple of new AC motors MADE IN USA on an EV website, do you think any more components can be found (controllers, chargers, ect.). Going to try and get a custom controller with US parts made, but it will be a long shot.

Last edited by wilkes5; 06-17-2012 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:01 PM
Caps18 Caps18 is offline
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkes5 View Post
Talked to a supplier of Ev parts and was told only two places in the world where lithium is found...China and another place close to Iran. Was thinking "fantastic" a complete monopoloy of communisum and more communisum.

Planning a AC performace conversion and was hoping to find as many "MADE IN THE USA" componets as possible. Would like to us lithium batteries and was wondering what the best options are in terms of having someone make a custom pack or assembling one yourself. Remeber price/quality ratio and the made in usa preference. Thank you.

Always what's right.
Well, you shouldn't believe everything you hear. Bolivia, Chile, United States, China, and a bunch of other countries have metric tonnes of Lithium.

Now, China is where it is 'economic' to mine for it because of the labor and environmental issues.

I am interested in buying US batteries. But, the companies that should be making large scale 'drop-in' batteries aren't doing anything to sell to the home converter. Netgain should work with a car maker to have them build a roller version of the EV1, and then sell the motor, controller, and batteries as a kit.

For my conversion and repair so far, about every part is coming from someplace in the US except for the batteries, even though they cost 1/3rd-1/2 of the total price. I really should start making a list of the states that I've bought stuff from.

Last edited by Caps18; 06-17-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:47 PM
wilkes5 wilkes5 is offline
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caps18 View Post
Well, you shouldn't believe everything you hear. Bolivia, Chile, United States, China, and a bunch of other countries have metric tonnes of Lithium.

Now, China is where it is 'economic' to mine for it because of the labor and environmental issues.

I am interested in buying US batteries. But, the companies that should be making large scale 'drop-in' batteries aren't doing anything to sell to the home converter. Netgain should work with a car maker to have them build a roller version of the EV1, and then sell the motor, controller, and batteries as a kit.

For my conversion and repair so far, about every part is coming from someplace in the US except for the batteries, even though they cost 1/3rd-1/2 of the total price. I really should start making a list of the states that I've bought stuff from.
Yes, was hoping to athenticate with others' knowledge about where lithium comes from and if usa lithium batteries exsist. Not just US companies importing lithium from other countries.

We both want more action in the EV world from US companies, maybe even automakers also? It should be simplified...motor/controller/batteries.
Just plug it in, simple like hooking up a VCR. You think rollers should be too? Do agree, maybe eco friendly fiberglass bodies in aerodynamic designs. let someone buy the roller and hook up whatever motor/ect.? Or mabye order a car like such (minus the engine/ect.) from a regular car manufacturer.

Was reading how some controllers can even be used to charge the batteries. Does anybody know? Can you DIY build one to charge batteries?
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

There are a few companies preparing to mine lithium in the US for the express purpose of supplying battery makers. Still, lithium is a commodity, and as such, battery makers will buy it from wherever they can get it at a decent price.

Besides China and Bolivia, Canada, Chile, Argentina, Afghanistan and Australia are just some of the countries with proven reserves. And, of course, the US.

The biggest player in the US is likely to be Western Lithium.

All of this info you can find in minutes with Google.

As for batteries, the type and/or brand you need really varies according to your project. Do you want to go fast? Far? What's your budget?

If you have no experience and you just want to do a modest conversion, go with CALB cells. Readily available at a decent price, they are easy to work with and lots of people here have experience with them. They are from China but really, don't sweat that detail.

If you want to support American companies, there are domestic suppliers from whom you can source a motor, controller and other the things you'll need.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkes5 View Post
...
Did see a couple of new AC motors MADE IN USA on an EV website, do you think any more components can be found (controllers, chargers, ect.). Going to try and get a custom controller with US parts made, but it will be a long shot.
If you must have AC and would prefer American-made stuff then the only real options are the Curtis 1238 & HPEVS AC-50 combo (~70kW peak) and the Rinehart Motion Systems PM100DX & Remy HVH250 combo (~100kW peak).

We get a lot of new people here each week wanting AC because of regen braking. That's a worthy feature to have, but you are going to pay out the nose for it. It makes about as much sense as paying twice as much for a car to get 5% better gas mileage.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:19 AM
wilkes5 wilkes5 is offline
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivin98 View Post
There are a few companies preparing to mine lithium in the US for the express purpose of supplying battery makers. Still, lithium is a commodity, and as such, battery makers will buy it from wherever they can get it at a decent price.

Besides China and Bolivia, Canada, Chile, Argentina, Afghanistan and Australia are just some of the countries with proven reserves. And, of course, the US.

The biggest player in the US is likely to be Western Lithium.

All of this info you can find in minutes with Google.

As for batteries, the type and/or brand you need really varies according to your project. Do you want to go fast? Far? What's your budget?

If you have no experience and you just want to do a modest conversion, go with CALB cells. Readily available at a decent price, they are easy to work with and lots of people here have experience with them. They are from China but really, don't sweat that detail.

If you want to support American companies, there are domestic suppliers from whom you can source a motor, controller and other the things you'll need.
Looking to get around 50 miles with as much performace as possible. Do you think it can be done with a donor curb weight of 3440 (with engine/transmission/ect)?

Definitly look into western lithium + CALB. Thanks for the input.

Last edited by wilkes5; 06-18-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Chile, Argentina, and Bolivia are known as the lithium triangle and I believe have the largest deposits as lithium brines buried in dry salt lake beds. Car companies like Toyota are funding the development of some of these resources. Lithium also exists as a tiny percentage in sea water. It is conceivable that once conventional resources are exhausted it will be extracted from the sea and geographic location wont mater.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:29 PM
jeremyjs jeremyjs is offline
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Default Re: Best Way to Go Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Chile, Argentina, and Bolivia are known as the lithium triangle and I believe have the largest deposits as lithium brines buried in dry salt lake beds. Car companies like Toyota are funding the development of some of these resources. Lithium also exists as a tiny percentage in sea water. It is conceivable that once conventional resources are exhausted it will be extracted from the sea and geographic location wont mater.

I remember reading somewhere, a few years ago, that at about 10x it's current cost it becomes economic to simply extract it from sea water. It sounds like a big difference, but based on how much lithium is actually used in a large format lithium battery it amounts to only a couple dollars increase in price per cell with a 10x increase in lithium prices. Basically only a small percentage of your lithium battery is actually lithium. The rest is made of of common, inexpensive elements that are produced on huge scales for other purposes.

Basically anyone who says there's not enough, to use it in batteries for the electrification of automobiles, doesn't know what they are talking about.

Sorry the number was 5x the cost.

Last edited by jeremyjs; 06-18-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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