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Discussion Starter #1
Auto Manufacturers,
“Wake up and smell the Ozone!”

Stop wasting funding Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Engineering the Petroleum fueled engine, Big or small, dump them all.
Lithium ion battery technology has been released .
Electric drive is sophisticated enough for the Market.
The RAV-4 proved reliable system life. Exceeding ten years !
And Tesla has proven 200 to 300 mile range on battery in a production vehicle.
We have the battery technology, and the design skills.
Build a smaller “Sport Utility” (Duh, “Station Wagon?”) and Mid Size Automobiles.
Don’t use gasoline or diesel pollution makers. They have outlived the supply of cheep oil that made them useful.
Scoop the market on Plug-In Electric Cars.
Then, sell the diesel trucks with a better fuel choice, (Compressed Natural Gas).
Disney World has demonstrated CNG for forty years, it works and comes from the USA.
 

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They can't do it for less than $60,000.

That's the same problem that Wind Power has. Frightening article on the consequences of powering a "revolution" with government subsidies...
 

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wind power is suffering from the "Utility syndrome" that is it works economically at your own home for your own use, but as a "Utility" it is a big wind farm, many generators, and highly profitable. But at our expense. Right now, I pay 65 cents for power it actually cost 12 cents to produce. The other 53 cents (Almost 80 %) is Administrative costs like dividends, and executive wages. Get their hands out of your pocket and cost of living is reasonable again.
 

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wind power is suffering from the "Utility syndrome" that is it works economically at your own home for your own use, but as a "Utility" it is a big wind farm, many generators, and highly profitable. But at our expense. Right now, I pay 65 cents for power it actually cost 12 cents to produce. The other 53 cents (Almost 80 %) is Administrative costs like dividends, and executive wages. Get their hands out of your pocket and cost of living is reasonable again.
You are correct that a few people make an inordinate amount of money, but you are incorrect in thinking it materially affects the price you pay for electricity delivered to your home.

Take all the revenues earned by big utility companies. Subtract the full value of the top executive salaries, benefits, and perks. You will find that it is less than a bucket full out of an Olympic pool.

Most of the costs of centralized power delivery are either creating and maintaining infrastructure, or the fuel, or the labor. Particularly the labor. That means jobs.

If they thought they could do it with less people (be more profitable), they would.
 

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Hi Phantom

That is true
UNLESS you have an "Electricity Market" where wheeler dealers buy and sell electricity to set the "spot price" and as if by magic a large proportion of the money ends up in the hands of third parties

The ENRON / California case was so blatant that the modern operators are bit more careful to hide their machinations
 

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Hi Phantom

That is true
UNLESS you have an "Electricity Market" where wheeler dealers buy and sell electricity to set the "spot price" and as if by magic a large proportion of the money ends up in the hands of third parties

The ENRON / California case was so blatant that the modern operators are bit more careful to hide their machinations
Sounds a lot like Washington - except that the Utilities aren't actually STEALING the money as "taxes."

Edit - and since Washington's provides no "value added service" to the process, the end result is more graft / higher prices.
 

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Stop wasting funding Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Engineering the Petroleum fueled engine, Big or small, dump them all.
Lithium ion battery technology has been released .
Electric drive is sophisticated enough for the Market.
This is where you are wrong and not looking at reality. There is no battery chemistry on the market that can meet the public demands like a 300 mile range, last 10 years or more, recharge in 10 minutes, and cost the same as an ICE vehicle. Until that happens the market will not move. In other words the Market makes the decision not you or uncle Sam
Don’t use diesel pollution makers. They have outlived the supply of cheep oil that made them useful.
Scoop the market on Plug-In Electric Cars.
Then, sell the diesel trucks with a better fuel choice, (Compressed Natural Gas).
Here again not going to happen. Heavy transport cannot run on electric or CNG. Diesel fuel is much cleaner than CNG, and has far more energy density than CNG not to mention a lot safer.
 

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Right now, I pay 65 cents for power it actually cost 12 cents to produce.
Why would you pay that much? That is your own fault choosing to live where you do. I pay 9.6 cents per Kwh and my Brother thinks I am crazy for paying that because where he lives only pay 6.1 cents per Kwh. National average is 11.1 cents per kwh. So if you are paying 65 cents, that is your problem. Move!
 

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Re: “Wake up and smell the Ozone!”

You are correct that a few people make an inordinate amount of money, but you are incorrect in thinking it materially affects the price you pay for electricity delivered to your home.

Take all the revenues earned by big utility companies. Subtract the full value of the top executive salaries, benefits, and perks. You will find that it is less than a bucket full out of an Olympic pool.

Most of the costs of centralized power delivery are either creating and maintaining infrastructure, or the fuel, or the labor. Particularly the labor. That means jobs.

If they thought they could do it with less people (be more profitable), they would.

Distributed generation (DG) refers to power generation at the point of consumption. Generating power on-site, rather than centrally, eliminates the cost, complexity, interdependencies, and inefficiencies associated with transmission and distribution. Yes it will in FULL kill all of the jobs that big power as i will refer to it do deliver to us the people. But that may just point to bigger issues in many nations.
 

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Distributed generation (DG) refers to power generation at the point of consumption. Generating power on-site, rather than centrally, eliminates the cost, complexity, interdependencies, and inefficiencies associated with transmission and distribution. Yes it will in FULL kill all of the jobs that big power as i will refer to it do deliver to us the people. But that may just point to bigger issues in many nations.
Sadly, generation on-site does NOT eliminate cost nor complexity. If it did, everyone would use home generation.

This will only change when solid-state electronics and high efficiency solar cells and reliable high-capacity batteries become the norm.
 

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Re: “Wake up and smell the Ozone!”

Sadly, generation on-site does NOT eliminate cost nor complexity. If it did, everyone would use home generation.

This will only change when solid-state electronics and high efficiency solar cells and reliable high-capacity batteries become the norm.[/QUOTE


I agree that the tech that would make it all work for everyone is not here yet. but not becouse it in not real tech. Not only would it be much much less complex then the present day power plants of all kinds, (fewer parts all around) but just in the few number of hands that would be involved with generating your own power saves money. The idea is to make power that i will use as i need it, not make power all day and not use it or feeding onto a power gid of any kind. No change in the consumers day to day life just less wasted energy.

Again the biggest con that i can see in this is the number of hard working people that would be put out of jobs. Maybe thats why all of the the tech that that would make the changes posible are so expensive or hard to get your hands on.
 

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Again the biggest con that i can see in this is the number of hard working people that would be put out of jobs. Maybe thats why all of the the tech that that would make the changes posible are so expensive or hard to get your hands on.
Well, the theory is that one day machines will do everything for us and we won't have to work.

That's the theory. Like Socialism, no one has seen it work.
 

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Distributed generation is as much a consumer issue as anything else. We go out on emergency calls regularly to homeowners that can't reset a tripped breaker even when we tell them how to do it over the phone. Same goes for tripped GFi in the bathroom.

Electric cars are viable to the masses once we convince then that they only need one ICE based car and the rest of their cars can be short range electric.
 
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