[rtcaldwell]

I am new to the forum and thought I'd ask some questions about some potential setup ideas in regard to converting an American classic car to an EV.

Here are my ideal stats and a probable budget

Dry weight w/ current powertrain: ~2950 lb
Max desired distance: 35-40 mi
Average speed - 40-45
Budget $10,000 absolute maximum

Things to consuder: Would love to be able to have a max speed of 80 mph (obviously with a much much shortened range

I'm open to using used parts, but I don't completely understand what I'm looking for. I have spent the last couple weeks reading copious amounts of arterial on the subject and it is only staring to make sense to me

Probably an open revolt controller (my father has excellent soldering abilities)

I'd love input on motor choice and battery choice!

I am intrigued at the difference between AC and DC, but how much of a difference will that really make for an older vehicle?

I am reading through the wiki's and I'm sure I will continue to have questions. Looks like this is one of the best communities, so I figured I'd start here

 

[mizlplix]

First priority, WEIGHT. A heavy car is the enemy. shed as much as you can during the build. It is free energy.

Second: start saving for batteries. It is the big ticket item.

Third: Go DC for economy.

Welcome to the family.

Miz

 

[Yabert]

Hi

Your project is doable, but because your budget is tight I suggest to you to try to found a used DC forklift motor.
Coupled with an open revolt controller this drive train (motor/controller) can cost as low than 1K$.

The only thing you can't cheap is on battery.
Let say 40 miles at 350 wh/mile. It's a bit high for a car, but I figure than it's an old car with poor aerodinamic and a lot of rolling resistance.

350 wh/mile x 40 miles / 0.80% discharge = 17.5 Kwh
17500wh / 144v = 122Ah... let say 130Ah cell.

At 1.2$/Ah that give you 7K$ of cell.
So you have 2K$ for all the others components (charger, adapter plate, bms, contactor, etc...).

Good luck

 

[Chad]

Super excited for you. I think these old cars are the way to go. They are only heavy because they are big. New big cars are also heavy.

I am going to (eventually) convert a 1959 Edsel 9 Passenger Villager Wagon

What I have decided to do, because range is necessary, is to have a small test pack of about 10 FLA batteries and find out exactly what kind of Watt/mile I am going to get. (these will later be used in a home backup power system)

Then go for LiFePo's. If I knew how many I was going to need I would get them right off the bat. Don't bother with Lead Acid for a "production" EV, they are not worth it at all. They are 1/3 the price, but 1/4 the performance AND life span.

Put all your money into batteries. Using cheap underpowered batteries is like trying to run an ICE on milk. You will be disappointed. Batteries is everything.

If you start with a cheap forklift motor, and it doesn't quite do it for you, when you upgrade it to like a WarP 9 (or 11) it will do what you want it to, IF you have the batteries to back it up!

I don't have any real experience with EV's yet, but do understand how it all works from dealing with electric R/C boats. They are kind of like drag racing, you push it to the limit until something melts - and batteries are everything.

Good luck, I'll be following this one.

P.S.
I also found it helpful to read through the builds in the Garage on this site. These are real world EV's that people actually drive. Lots of info to gather there based on peoples updates, what broke, what they need more of etc.

 

[mizlplix]

I think you will find that the Edsel models were built between 1958 and 1960. There is no 1952 model Edsel anything.

It was originally going to be a Ford car line spin off like the Mercury line. it didn't last long due to a cold public reception and hundreds of small glitches with the models produced.

It was named after Henry's son, Edsel Ford.

It would be a nice EV project though.

Miz

 

[rtcaldwell]

The only thing you can't cheap is on battery.
Let say 40 miles at 350 wh/mile. It's a bit high for a car, but I figure than it's an old car with poor aerodinamic and a lot of rolling resistance.

350 wh/mile x 40 miles / 0.80% discharge = 17.5 Kwh
17500wh / 144v = 122Ah... let say 130Ah cell.

At 1.2$/Ah that give you 7K$ of cell.
So you have 2K$ for all the others components (charger, adapter plate, bms, contactor, etc...).

Good luck

That math mostly makes sense to me, but I am not sure what type of battery. Since lead acid appears be much less expensive I am assuming you are talking about a LiFePO4 battery? What manufacturers are best or well known? Is there going to be one that does better witho heavier cars? I've seen the name CALB tossed around a lot and there is someone in my metro area working on a group order. Is that something that would be appropriate for my situation?

 

[Duncan]

If you start with a cheap forklift motor, and it doesn't quite do it for you, when you upgrade it to like a WarP 9 (or 11) it will do what you want it to

My problem with this is -
I don't see the difference between a 9 or 11 inch fork lift motor with advance timing ( a DIY mod) and a WarP 9 (or 11)

The "dedicated DC EV motors" - seem to be standard fork lift motors with a nice paint job and a zero added to the price

 

[MN Driver]

My problem with this is -
I don't see the difference between a 9 or 11 inch fork lift motor with advance timing ( a DIY mod) and a WarP 9 (or 11)

The "dedicated DC EV motors" - seem to be standard fork lift motors with a nice paint job and a zero added to the price

Larger brush surfaces, a comm bar arrangement more suitable for higher voltages and amperages, larger motor in general to handle better amperage.

I'm not sure how well a forklift motor would take 170 volts that a dedicated Series DC motor can take.

Oh, oh, find me a forklift motor with interpoles that can handle voltage in the 200's and 600 amps for at least a moment, if you can get that with one less zero, let me know. I'd LOVE to have an interpoled series DC HV motor for my conversion for $180.

 

[Duncan]

Larger brush surfaces, a comm bar arrangement more suitable for higher voltages and amperages, larger motor in general to handle better amperage.

Nope look just the same to me.
Same size brushes, same number of comm bars, - bloody thing weighs 102Kg


I'm not sure how well a forklift motor would take 170 volts that a dedicated Series DC motor can take.

If there is no physical difference... -
Why would I expect a performance difference?


Oh, oh, find me a forklift motor with interpoles that can handle voltage in the 200's and 600 amps for at least a moment, if you can get that with one less zero, let me know. I'd LOVE to have an interpoled series DC HV motor for my conversion for $180.

OK you have got one here - but does the WarP have interpoles? - I thought that was a Kostov feature

There may be some detail changes but the motors are very very similar

 

[Chad]

I think you will find that the Edsel models were built between 1958 and 1960. There is no 1952 model Edsel anything.

It was originally going to be a Ford car line spin off like the Mercury line. it didn't last long due to a cold public reception and hundreds of small glitches with the models produced.

It was named after Henry's son, Edsel Ford.

It would be a nice EV project though.

Miz

Typo, it's a 59'

 

[rtcaldwell]

What would be a good engine to pull 3000lbs of a not very aerodynamic car. I would like to think I could get a forklift engine that would do the trick, but I'm not sure what I'd be looking for.

My thoughts for a battery pack is a LiFePO4 system, probably 160ah with a pack totaling 144v. From what I can tell, this will cost me about $7k.

I am not planning on moving forward on this project for another 2-4 months, but all the #'s in cost and mileage seem to pencil out and I am very interested in beginning a parts list and I'd love all sorts of input

Probably OpenRevolt Controller
Batteries - Unsure
Motor - if I can't find a forklift motor, then probably a warp11???

 

[rtcaldwell]

Also, I've used a wiring company before when I redid my stereo that had great prices on wiring for large gages. Is Copper important, or are different types of connections fine. I spent some time caring about audiophile stuff and have some leftover wires. Anyone used knukonceptz.com for wires in an EV?

Who do y'all use for misc purchases, or just find some local distributor like NAPA / O'Rileys / Baxters?

 

[Yabert]

What would be a good engine to pull 3000lbs of a not very aerodynamic car.

Bad aerodynamic isn't that much considerable if you don't drive at high speed.
Another consideration is if you need to do a lot of stop and go with your car.
Also, do you keep the transmission?

If you don't need to sustain high speed and don't stop often, a 9'' motor can do the job. But because space and a bit more weigh isn't a problem for you, an 11'' motor can be perfect.