So ~22HP @72V nominal?
the attachment returns :
Oops! We ran into some problems.
The requested page could not be found.
later floyd
1976 Fiat Spider 124 EV Conversion
Donner Car: 1976 Fiat Spider 124. Objective: Get my feet wet in the EV world and give me something to occupy some of my time in retirement. Challenges: Limited space, one spot in a three car garage in new house covered by a strict HOA. Advantages: Significant experience with large DIY projects. Built two vacation homes, built and flown experimental aircraft, car restoration, motorhome conversion and many other electrical mechanical systems. Background: Retire Lockheed System Engineer with AS and BS EE degrees. Age: 73. Location: Windsor Colorado
I want to build a low cost EV that is simple and performs similar to that of the 124 with the ICE. Range about 30 miles and used on relatively flat city streets with occasionally highway driving. Present design is 48 VDC Series Shunt Forklift motor of about 15 HP through the original 5 speed transmission and driven from a PWM controller from a 72 VDC LiFePo4 battery pack. No drive hardware obtained yet, still open to different technology. I intend to include significant instrumentation to monitor and document performance.
Additional information in "New Member" thread.
I intend to update this thread as I progress along with the project. Provide details on the design and lessons learned. I encourage input from the forum especially on simpler low cost approaches.
View attachment 133420
Striped down waiting for initial drive train.
I want to build a low cost EV that is simple and performs similar to that of the 124 with the ICE. Range about 30 miles and used on relatively flat city streets with occasionally highway driving. Present design is 48 VDC Series Shunt Forklift motor of about 15 HP through the original 5 speed transmission and driven from a PWM controller from a 72 VDC LiFePo4 battery pack. No drive hardware obtained yet, still open to different technology. I intend to include significant instrumentation to monitor and document performance.
Additional information in "New Member" thread.
I intend to update this thread as I progress along with the project. Provide details on the design and lessons learned. I encourage input from the forum especially on simpler low cost approaches.
View attachment 133420
Striped down waiting for initial drive train.
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
the attachment returns :
Oops! We ran into some problems.
The requested page could not be found.
later floyd
Looking at kits from electro motor sports. Trying to go inexpensive but get reasonable performance. Either DC Brushed as in the ME1008 or PMSM as in the ME1507 or ME1302. Comparing electric motor torque curves against the Fiat 124 ICE torque curve indicates to me that the ME1302 may not cut it where the ME1507 and ME1008 might be OK. The only issue I found in the forum was against the ME1008. The comment was that the ME1008 would not last long in a car. Initial recommendation from one member was that the ME1302 would be ok. I expect the final weight of the car would be near 2400 lbs. I am looking for comparable performance as with the ICE. Range near >15 miles initially. Anyone have a comment or recommendation.
15 will get you 10 in Colorado...
😂
😂
DC forklift motor - 15 hp so probably an 11 inch motor
I would suggest simply using the motor in place of the gearbox - which will leave the engine bay for batteries
You will need to increase the voltage - you need about 150 volts for street use
You will need about 500 amps to give useful torque
DC forklift motors are old obsolete technology - but they are cheap and powerful
IMHO the sensible options are the old DC forklift - OR - the power unit from a modern EV
The "new kits" are both very expensive and gutless
Motor Voltages
My motor (Hitachi) is badged at 48 volt - but I'm feeding it 340 volt
That is a bit extreme but 150 volts will be no problem
I would suggest simply using the motor in place of the gearbox - which will leave the engine bay for batteries
You will need to increase the voltage - you need about 150 volts for street use
You will need about 500 amps to give useful torque
DC forklift motors are old obsolete technology - but they are cheap and powerful
IMHO the sensible options are the old DC forklift - OR - the power unit from a modern EV
The "new kits" are both very expensive and gutless
Motor Voltages
My motor (Hitachi) is badged at 48 volt - but I'm feeding it 340 volt
That is a bit extreme but 150 volts will be no problem
Dc brushed is kinda 1940 technology anymore unless you want to build your own pwm controller. Ten years ago, it was all you had for parts......or you had no money.......new automotive motors are multiphase, more efficient, and do regen. Jury is out on the ME series of motors, there's better available now. Someone indicated the hyper9 was induction, I don't know.
Might want to see if you can work on your car, some HOA's say "nope".
Having built your own plane means you understand the labor of love your undertaking.
Might want to see if you can work on your car, some HOA's say "nope".
Having built your own plane means you understand the labor of love your undertaking.
HOA saids OK as long it is in the garage. Partial to a DC motor because it is cheep and I can use just a cheep basic controller initially. I want to get things going to get hands on experience with a 8 -12v 100 ahr battery pack (72v). If things work I would switch to LiFe and 96V to get extended range, higher speed with the about the same weight. I got the lead acid batteries from a solar project I was working on in CA. By the way I intend to use the batteries in the car as house backup. Charge from the sun, charge from the line, drive the car. If there is a power outage use the car batteries to power the house through an AC inverter. More bang for my buck. Piotrsko do your comments on DC motors still apply to a permanent magnet motor like ME1008? Has any one on the forum heard any good or bad thing about the ME1008, especially powering a 2400 lb car?
Make sure you can get that "cheap" DC controller - a lot of people can't get the components to build your components, and, because they cannot, what was "cheap" no longer is. Same story for motors, as has been stated in another thread where they can't get a bearing to produce a motor.
The world made a mistake relying on Chinese manufacturing - and when it got buyer's remorse, the Chinese made sure the world could not get the pieces needed to repatriate manufacturing. There are no parts shortages for BYD and others making EVs in China...Musk is now talking about importing Shanghai-made Teslas to the US, so time to whack them with a 30% tariff.
The world made a mistake relying on Chinese manufacturing - and when it got buyer's remorse, the Chinese made sure the world could not get the pieces needed to repatriate manufacturing. There are no parts shortages for BYD and others making EVs in China...Musk is now talking about importing Shanghai-made Teslas to the US, so time to whack them with a 30% tariff.
No, the HyPer 9 - which is a Dana TM4 SRI 200 house-branded for NetGain - is an interior permanent magnet motor. That "someone" may have confused it with the HPEVS series of motors, which are all of the induction type.Someone indicated the hyper9 was induction, I don't know.
Whether a DC motor has field windings in series with the armature ("series"), or field windings in parallel with the armature ("shunt"), or field and armature separately controlled ("SepEx"), or no field windings at all because it has permanent magnets instead, the motor still depends on brushes and a commutator to operate the armature; the characteristics do change (including the ability to regen with a suitable controller), but whether they are suitable for a given application or not depends very much on individual motor choice.Piotrsko do your comments on DC motors still apply to a permanent magnet motor like ME1008?
The ME1008 (and ME1007) seems like a strange design to me: it is apparently totally enclosed, so it isn't cooled by air passing through it, but it has no other cooling provisions (external fins and fan, liquid cooling, etc).
Sounds bad. Will we have to regress back to the 20s and use carbon piles, high current knife switching and lead acid batteries. Our power infrastructure is not going to take that type of inefficiency, Ha Ha. Yea, lets stop hydro carbon drilling.
Well, I am still looking for a motor.
Well, I am still looking for a motor.
Last post comment back to Remy.
Talking to a commercial water well servicer: there are cheap used (pulled working but scrap value), multi phase ( he hinted at variable speed ?) AC controllers for water wells up to 100hp, but the down side is they are generally 408 volts 3ph. He thought there might be DC capable controllers. Did not verify this claim. Worst case is you can use the power silicon and the control scheme.
Over in the for sale section here there's usually a couple of controllers for sale, but buyer beware, Singapore merchants on the internet have proven to be more honest and forthright. Might be worth it to aquire the controller and let that dictate the powertrain
Over in the for sale section here there's usually a couple of controllers for sale, but buyer beware, Singapore merchants on the internet have proven to be more honest and forthright. Might be worth it to aquire the controller and let that dictate the powertrain
You might check out this post dual ME 1003? motor set up for an idea of what can be done if your are inclined, Note in the article on the Miata conversion the motors are identified as ME1007's But the motors are vented which would be a ME1003? Unless the brush covers were changed.Trying to go inexpensive but get reasonable performance. Either DC Brushed as in the ME1008
Later floyd
ME1007's would also be 48 V motors, but this is a 72 V car...You might check out this post dual ME 1003? motor set up for an idea of what can be done if your are inclined, Note in the article on the Miata conversion the motors are identified as ME1007's But the motors are vented which would be a ME1003? Unless the brush covers were changed.
Among the Motenergy brushed DC PM motors
- vented: ME0708, ME0709, ME0909, ME1002, ME1003, ME1004
- enclosed: ME1007, ME1008, ME1513, ME1514
- 36 V: ME0909
- 48 V: ME0708, ME1004, ME1007
- 72 V: ME0709, ME1003, ME1008, ME1513, ME1514
Seriously considering the ME1507/ME1905. It is a 96 volt system. Talk to Electro Motor Sport and they recommended that system. Attached picture of the Spider motor bay. Transmission is supported by itself and there is plenty of room for the motorwith good support. The interface plate is not in place. I am waiting until I know what motor I will use before I cut the plate.
![Motor vehicle Hood Automotive tire Automotive exterior Vehicle]()
Should be a clean installation with plenty of room for batteries.
The ME1507 and ME1905 were not in my earlier list of Motenergy models, because they're not the brushed PM type that was being discussed. The ME1507 is an enclosed (to IP65 standard) air-cooled brushless radial-flux PM motor; that seems inherently preferable to any brushed motor to me, for similar size and other ratings.Seriously considering the ME1507/ME1905. It is a 96 volt system. Talk to Electro Motor Sport and they recommended that system.
Motenergy doesn't even list the ME1905 on their web site, so it's not clear what the difference might be.
Per Electro Motor Sport sales it was just a part number change.
Coming along with the car conversion. Built the motor to trans interface and testing with a small 24V 3 HP peak motor running on 36 volts with a Curtis 275 amp controller. Looks like the interface performs well, but only time on the road will tell.
I am gong to mount into the car just for the fun of it to see what the motor can do. 10 mph in first? Will measure the amps dawned. Probably get a 72 V PM motor from Electrosport, ME1908 with 19Hp peak at 72 volts. Thinking about lead acid batteries with a total 7.2 Kw AH pack. Hope with this arrangement I can get 10 miles level ground with 50% discharge. Into the project $2300 including donor car. Expect another $2500- $3500 for batteries, motor and controller. If this setup works out and I like the car I may spring for an AC motor system from Electrosport in the future. My primary purpose right now is to hands on learn about EV systems and have fun building. I am working on full instrumentation for this setup. Fun to plot the data and evaluate the results.
I am gong to mount into the car just for the fun of it to see what the motor can do. 10 mph in first? Will measure the amps dawned. Probably get a 72 V PM motor from Electrosport, ME1908 with 19Hp peak at 72 volts. Thinking about lead acid batteries with a total 7.2 Kw AH pack. Hope with this arrangement I can get 10 miles level ground with 50% discharge. Into the project $2300 including donor car. Expect another $2500- $3500 for batteries, motor and controller. If this setup works out and I like the car I may spring for an AC motor system from Electrosport in the future. My primary purpose right now is to hands on learn about EV systems and have fun building. I am working on full instrumentation for this setup. Fun to plot the data and evaluate the results.
Lead acid is heavy, low energy storage, and expensive.
Why?
Why?
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
DIY Electric Car Forums
A forum community dedicated to DIY electric car owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about electric vehicle conversions, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
remy_martian
113 Replies
Functional Artist
38 Replies
428RC
24 Replies
Recommended Communities
