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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
I'd pick up the mount off a crossmember. It can sneak under the compartment and free up volume you need in there, not to mention stiffen the front of the car up for handling reasons.
Yes the Leaf originally mounted the front two on a cross member. I grabbed both mounts just in case which has me wondering if I'd rather use them. I'd need to make a cross member in this case.
 

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Yes the Leaf originally mounted the front two on a cross member. I grabbed both mounts just in case which has me wondering if I'd rather use them. I'd need to make a cross member in this case.
The Leaf drive unit is actually mounted on a roughly rectangular (more trapezoidal) subframe, which also carries the lower control arms (and I assume the steering rack); the subframe mounts to the body at the four corners. The back part of this is somewhat similar to this generation of CRX (and all third-generation Civics), which also has a subframe carrying the control arms (and all of the weight, because it uses torsion bars acting on the control arms) but unfortunately the Honda subframe doesn't carry all of the powertrain (engine+transmission) mounts so it doesn't have a front portion and it's not a very direct swap.

The CRX transmission mount is back near the axle line (typical of transverse powertrains), so even a crossmember between transmission and engine mounts won't be low in front where the Leaf unit wants to be mounted... but something up there, perhaps from the CRX engine mount location to a newly fabricated bracket on the right-side "frame rail" box, would probably be helpful.
 

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1996 Toyota Land Cruiser
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A couple things that come to mind looking at your photos and from my experience with FWD cars:

-The way you have the motor offset so that the axles are equal is great. It offsets the driver's weight which is how those cars are built in the first place. However now you'll need to have custom axles manufactured.

-If you are going through the expense and challenges of mating the Nissan motor to the Honda transmission, why not upgrade to a K-series transmission or B-series or something stronger with an LSD from factory? I know the trans you chose has the long final drive but it may break with 200ft-lbs going through it, especially if you upgrade to a more powerful inverter.

-I would try as hard as possible to fit the PDM under the hood over the top of the transmission if you can. It's going to take up a lot of space in the passenger compartment if you can't.
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
A couple things that come to mind looking at your photos and from my experience with FWD cars:

-The way you have the motor offset so that the axles are equal is great. It offsets the driver's weight which is how those cars are built in the first place. However now you'll need to have custom axles manufactured.

-If you are going through the expense and challenges of mating the Nissan motor to the Honda transmission, why not upgrade to a K-series transmission or B-series or something stronger with an LSD from factory? I know the trans you chose has the long final drive but it may break with 200ft-lbs going through it, especially if you upgrade to a more powerful inverter.

-I would try as hard as possible to fit the PDM under the hood over the top of the transmission if you can. It's going to take up a lot of space in the passenger compartment if you can't.
I actually ended up using the Leaf transmission because the axle (half shaft) hub will collide with the motor. I might consider trying the civic transmission later but I would need a custom intermediate shaft and a driver side axle custom fabricated. Due to an upcoming registration, I got timeboxed to have to get my car running as an EV before March (March 16 renewal date which requires smog in California).

In theory, I could just non-op the car but the last time I did that, I had to wait in line physically at DMV 3-4 times only to get a moving permit that was only good for a single day as I took the car to the BAR station for the California Air Resources Board to review and legalize. I'd rather not deal with that again and in theory, I can get the car running sub-optimally.

I definitely will be trying to fit the PDM under the hood but that'll come after I finish mounts.
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #125 ·
Update for the day.

This is my last day of my 1.5 week long holiday break so updates may no longer be daily going forward.

I went to the "Metal Supermarket" (thats actually their name) and bought some steel. Its so much nicer. Steel pipes for the axles. Boxed steel for the mounts.

Also bought some more Argon+CO2 for my welder.

I first looked over the enter engine bay trying to figure out if it was possible to build out a cross member. One of the issues I encountered preventing me from considering the cross member route was that the motor, being so far to the passenger side, would not have enough room to put in the stock bracket which would use the cross member motor mount. This meant that even if I had enough room to build out a cross member, I would still need a motor mount I didn't have on hand. Alternatively I'd have to "uncenter" the transmission which would result in axles being unequal. Also to build a cross member, I'd have to it wouldn't be a trapezoid but a straight box as the passenger side would have to vertically drop down 6-12 inches just to get below the motor and somehow I'd still need to fit in a motor mount which there isn't much clearance for on the passenger side. So went ahead and continued with my current approach of fabricating mounts.

Started to template the passenger side mount. I didn't take pictures so I took a screen shot of the video:
Motor vehicle Engineering Electrical wiring Machine Auto part


Cut the metal, welded one piece at a time. Somehow it took all day:
Purple Plant Organism Tree Leisure


Drilled holes. Made another piece.
Plant Tree Road surface Leisure Grass


I found out then the bracket that goes against the motor couldn't sit flush because some bolts nearby would prevent it so I had to grind away some areas to make it work. Also found out that I need different sized bolts and nuts.

Gas Machine Auto part Engineering Motor vehicle


I got this far and found that the bracket wouldn't reach each other and I had to weld another piece in between:
Gas Machine tool Helmet Auto part Machine


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End result, is an ugly motor mount that I'll clean up another day:
Automotive tire Grey Motor vehicle Wood Automotive exterior


Motor vehicle Automotive tire Vehicle Automotive exterior Electrical wiring


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It was probably 7 hours of labor for this one mount. Called it a day here since I have work tomorrow and I'm physically exhausted from doing this daily for the last week and half. (I normally sit in front of a computer all day coding)

Time lapse for the day:

oh right. 2 of 3 mounts done! one left to go... maybe on the weekend. I can't run the angle grinder when the kids are sleeping:
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hood Vehicle Automotive design
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #126 ·
Misc distraction since I'm supposed to be working.

First is that I'm looking into speedometer solutions given I will no longer have a vehicle speed sensor from the transmission to provide me my speed.

I had asked Isak what he used in his swap and it turns out he had a wheel speed sensor already which enabled him to keep his speedo.

He recommended speedhut and I explored their options which included a GPS or VSS to mechanical output. In that sense, I could technically take GPS, to mechanical, to spin the gear and enable vss to my current gauge cluster. But that sounds too clunky and I also happened to research how wheel speed sensors work.

In one scenario, there are gears in the wheel hub area, and a hall sensor which detects the magnetic field of each gear tooth. Alternatively, there could be a little magnet and each time it passes the hall sensor, it would create a single pulse. VSS, by honda is simply a gear that sends a 12v pulse every full turn of the gear. More recent VSS in Honda, particularly the Honda Insight cluster I have, or the S2000, sends that VSS to the ECU, which then half's the counts and sends it to the cluster. I have a k-tuned speedhealer which does this for me.

Where this brings me is that I'd prefer to keepy speedometer. And I've ordered a hall sensor, specially:
Racepak 800-SS-MSC-5 Hall Effect Drive Shaft Sensor
Light Audio equipment Cable Auto part Font



It comes with a magnet which I can easily mount either on a wheel hub, or axle hub, front or rear, etc. 3 wires, just like VSS, one being 12v, one being ground, and one being the output.

I'm going to try and bench test it when I can't be outside and maybe simulate the vss output with it. If it works then I can keep my speedometer. If not then I'll hack it anyways and maybe build something to convert the signals. Either ways I'll find a way.

Thought I'd share since I'm sure speedometer output will be an issue for any leaf conversion that originally ran on a transmission vss.

In worst case if it fails, I can try and get the RPM from the leaf and convert that to speed as others have suggested.
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #127 ·
So I was itching to get something done on Wednesday and so I started the rear mount but I didn't have enough time to finish before it got too late to cut/grind metal.

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Also went out and bought some bolts that were sized better. The original bolts for the leaf were too long as the mounts were thicker pieces of alluminum (About an inch thick) which meant the bolts would not hold the mount as it was protuding by about an inch on both the rear and passenger side mounts.

These bolts for example were protuding by about an inch just as were the rear bolts:
Vehicle Motor vehicle Coil Automotive exterior Automotive tire


Timelapse:

Since it was quiet time, I went off and started cleaning up wiring and thinking about how I would be able to run various inputs and outputs between the controller and the existing harness in the car.

Also did some labelling. A lot of labelling.
Circuit component Electrical wiring Electronic engineering Computer hardware Gadget


Today, or rather Thursday(yesterday), I took the time to clean up wiring for all my modifications. I need to rethink how I run those wires and how to better integrate them into the wire loom without making it a mangled web. For temporary, I pulled out the wiring for the pop-up headlights, alarm, fog lights, radio, GPS trackers, automatic door locks, etc. There are probably more things but key was to take out my mods, remove unneeded wiring that is fuel related or reuse it to install the wiring needed to run the new motor and controller.

Here is before I cleaned it up:
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hood Automotive design Mode of transport


And after:
Vehicle Hood Car Motor vehicle Automotive lighting


Also took out the pedals and compared them:
Electrical wiring Automotive tire Gas Cable Electronic device


What is clear is the throttle is extended far to the right and so I'd definitely have to fabricate a bracket for it as well.

I started off by removing the clutch pedal since I won't need that in any scenario:
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Electrical wiring Bag Gas


I then put the stock pedal back in and began to question if I should build the bracket to extend off the current pedal assembly, or if I should build a bracket that would bolt into the body of the car itself. The steering column certainly is in the way so its something to think about a little later

Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive exterior
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #128 · (Edited)
Separate post for speedometer shenanigans.

I got the hall sensor!
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I also ordered a oscilloscope and attempted to check the output of the Honda Vehicle speed sensor. The Honda VSS is a gear, that turns a sensor that outputs a signal. I'm not sure if the oscilloscope is working right because the VSS outputs 12v but the oscilloscope was reading 1.75v instead. A multimeter read 12v. Maybe the oscilloscope I bought was too cheap :(

please excuse the mess.
Table Audio equipment Electronic instrument Desk Computer


Since that was not working, I decided to sanity check and see if I could bench test the VSS to Cluster.

So first is the Honda VSS:
Wood Telephony Office equipment Engineering Flooring


I did not remember what pins were what wires/colors so I had to check the harness:
Glove Safety glove Automotive tire Personal protective equipment Nail


Schematic Handwriting Font Line Rectangle


White/Blue (Yel/Blu in diagram) is VSS Signal
Black is Ground
Black/Yellow is 12v Power

Machine tool Engineering Gas Cameras & optics Machine


With that done, I went ahead and connected it to a cluster. First I used the 1992 Civic VX cluster as it was the original cluster that paired with the VSS. Here is a video of a talk through and bench test:

Next I wanted to see if I could get the hall effect sensor from Racepak to output the the VX Cluster.

Outputs are similar but in different positions:
Gadget Wood Table Eyewear Electrical wiring


This image is how I figured out what was what:
Line Font Parallel Circle Auto part


Whats very interesting about this image is the ring on the left that holds the magnet. If there was a good way to install it and keep the airgap between sensor and the ring constant then I might have to try it.

Anyways back on topic. I made a video of the test. TLDW, it kinda works but clearly the output is resulting in a different "speed". Its likely frequency related meaning I'd have to convert or something similar.

For bonus, I bench tested the Honda Insight Cluster as well and that worked as well:

Now I need to find a place to mount hall sensor, mount magnet, and convert the output.

I'll start with finding a better oscilloscope so I can read the VSS output, read the Hall Effect output, and then make something to convert the signal.

In worst case scenario, I go with the speedhut GPS to mechanical which would turn the Honda VSS gear which would then output the digital VSS signal I need. Which sounds terrible but at least there are many solutions to a single problem :)

edit:
This is the source of that diagram for the hall sensor. Its interesting because it might work for @Electric Land Cruiser since they're attaching it to an axle.

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CV Half shafts are slight different but maybe I can attach it to the hub which wouldn't change positions too much. More research needed.
 

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I'm guessing the Honda VSS has a toothed reluctor ring inside. I'd pull the Philips screws out and take a peek inside to see how it works. You could even pirate the parts...

Do you have a 3d printer? You can grab a nice Ender-3 these days with heated bed for two hundred bucks. Can print up a ring of magnets to press onto your rotating shaftverk and make a holder for the chintzy probe...if you must. Maybe print up a drive gear and housing to run the Honda VSS 🤓
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #131 ·
More speedo shenanigans :)

So I took the Honda VSS apart. A hall sensor and 8 magnets.

8 pulses per full rotation of the VSS gear. Itn curious how many rotations of the sensor equals a wheel rotation but maybe they doesn't matter. Either ways, that 3D printer to print a ring with 8 magnets sounds might tempting now.
Wood Paint Gas Auto part Writing implement


As I began looking at the wiring, I also began to wonder what if I could "shift" into drive, with a button that wasn't so ugly like the leaf shifter.

So I decided to try and humor it:
Hood Automotive design Gadget Computer hardware Electrical wiring


Took it apart:
Automotive tire Electrical wiring Engineering Computer hardware Gas


Maybe something like this? I need to fab an adapter

Blue Laptop Personal computer Computer Automotive design


I also need to figure out the wiring.. I'm clearly distracted 😂

Table Electrical wiring Electronic engineering Cable Gadget


Table Gadget Desk Audio equipment Electrical wiring


more hall sensors hahaha. The three screws are being held by 3 magnets.
Circuit component Bicycle tire Passive circuit component Bicycle handlebar Desk


The magnet is in the shape of an L so it appears two sensors are triggered based on each shifter position.
Circuit component Passive circuit component Hardware programmer Electronic component Electrical wiring


I had to force myself to put this aside because these random deciphering puzzles are too much fun.

I swear I got some real swap work done.

I'll have a separate update up shortly for other tasks I completed for the build.
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #132 ·
First off, all the vacuum parts came in so brakes will be working:
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Bumper Automotive exterior Gas


Next I completed my rear mount:
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Automotive wheel system


Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive exterior Bumper Automotive wheel system


The then took all the mounts out. I need to clean them up and paint them so they don't rust. Maybe seal them up a bit as well since there are some openings that can be problematic as they would capture water.

Automotive tire Automotive lighting Bumper Motor vehicle Automotive exterior


And finally the timelapse (its uploading so it might not be immediately ready:
 

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More speedo shenanigans :)

So I took the Honda VSS apart. A hall sensor and 8 magnets.

8 pulses per full rotation of the VSS gear. Itn curious how many rotations of the sensor equals a wheel rotation but maybe they doesn't matter. Either ways, that 3D printer to print a ring with 8 magnets sounds might tempting now.
View attachment 126195

As I began looking at the wiring, I also began to wonder what if I could "shift" into drive, with a button that wasn't so ugly like the leaf shifter.

So I decided to try and humor it:
View attachment 126196

Took it apart:
View attachment 126197

Maybe something like this? I need to fab an adapter

View attachment 126198

I also need to figure out the wiring.. I'm clearly distracted 😂

View attachment 126199

View attachment 126200

more hall sensors hahaha. The three screws are being held by 3 magnets.
View attachment 126201

The magnet is in the shape of an L so it appears two sensors are triggered based on each shifter position.
View attachment 126202

I had to force myself to put this aside because these random deciphering puzzles are too much fun.

I swear I got some real swap work done.

I'll have a separate update up shortly for other tasks I completed for the build.
Hi that’s also one fun parts of the conversions.
I followed your build an it locks great.

I think I will run in to same problems for the engine high as you.
have you found a way to fix it.
 

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1986 Honda CRX (EM57 2013 Leaf Motor)
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Discussion Starter · #134 ·
Hi that’s also one fun parts of the conversions.
I followed your build an it locks great.

I think I will run in to same problems for the engine high as you.
have you found a way to fix it.
There is a thread for a 2002 BMW leaf swap that has a polycarbonate cover to clear the height issue. I'm exploring custom covers but that might not be enough since the CRX is small so I might just relocate the PDU.
 

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Discussion Starter · #135 ·
I did a bit of clean up grinding and welding to the mounts. Threw on some prime and paint and wow it looks a lot better lol
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You may want to radius those corners while the brackets are out - if you don't, you'll curse yourself later when you're wrenching on the car and running to to the hospital with a pound of flesh hanging off a piece of skin cuz the wrench slipped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 ·
You may want to radius those corners while the brackets are out - if you don't, you'll curse yourself later when you're wrenching on the car and running to to the hospital with a pound of flesh hanging off a piece of skin cuz the wrench slipped.
Its funny because I wrench and slipped my finger into something similar on the car that did exactly that to my finger a week ago! But yes, I did round off most of the edges and I wear two layers of gloves now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #138 ·
Axles. I chopped the axles but the steel pipe I bought was too big. I'll first try to buy a smaller pipe but if that doesn't work then I'll have to make it work.

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Wish I had a lathe for metal working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 · (Edited)
Shifter shenanigans.

Since I was stuck with the axles I went to do wiring.

I could just put momentary switches for the shifter but... I wanted to see if I really could use the leaf shifter with my shift knob.

So what I found was of the 12 wires, 2 powered by 12v, 2 grounded. The remaining were pairs for Parking, Drive, Neutral, Reverse. When each pair is engaged, say I shift to Drive, there will be resistance between the pair of about 52 ohms.

In a sense there is continuity but will be considered activation of a switch for the resolve-ev, I don't know. In the worst case, I could just make it trigger a little relay and that would work similarly. Another interesting detail is that Neutral, isn't really in the Neutral position. For those familiar with the Leaf shifter, Neutral is shifting straight left and returning to default position. However the wiring registers Default position, not Neutral position. So Neutral circuit essentially is triggered when the shifter deactivates Default position but doesn't shift into Drive or Reverse. In other words I don't see myself using it because one must trigger neutral before triggering D or R.

In the wiring diagram below:
D = Drive
R = Reverse
C = Center default position (Neutral?)
+ = 12V
- = Ground
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Oh yeah and the motor is fully mounted
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The D15Z1 engine was also picked up so no turning back now! :)

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