[SCEV]

Parting ways with my 1986 Porsche 944 conversion. Bought it back in 2012 and slowly converted it over a couple of years. Have had two kids since the conversion, and never drive it anymore. Last time I drove it was about a year and a half ago when we moved.

You can check out my blog at 951EV.blogspot.com for some history of the build, but it is very outdated. I'll include some current pictures in this thread. Below is a list of all expenses from the build (just put this together, didn't really keep a running total). Make an offer...the wife says we are negotiable!

Speedometer and tachometer work, and I built a small circuit so the boost gauge shows the motor amps. The car is located in Charleston, SC.

1986 Porsche 944 Turbo - $3700 ($5k - $1300 I got from engine sale)
Warp11 Motor (H60 split top brushes) - $2925 from Mike at EV-Propulsion
Motor Mount (ring clamp) - $127 from Electric Car Parts Company
EVnetics Soliton 1 - $2800 from Mike at EV-Propulsion
Controller Mount - $200 from local shop Soliton Throttle - $145 from Mike at EV-Propulsion
Tachometer Sensor - $100 from Recharge Car
Coupler - $360 from Charlie at EV Coupler Connection Adaptor Plate - $320 from Yabert on this forum
Power Steering rack rebuild kit, various bushings/boots - $300 from Pelican Parts Rebuilt front suspension - $930 from Paragon
64 CALB CA 100 batteries (60 installed, 4 "bad", bottom balanced) - $8168 ($122 per cell and $360 shipping) from Don Blazer
12 CALB CA 100 batteries (not installed, never used) - $1387 from Ryan on this forum
MES 70/6E Electric Vacuum Pump - $293 from Metric Mind
JLD 404 Intelligent AH Meter and Chennic 400 Watt Isolated 12v DC-DC Converter - $423 from EVTV
Fuse for heater, Fuse for main pack, shunt, battery connections, etc - $963 from EVTV
Brusa NLG513-U1-O1l Charger (with cables) - $1995 from EVTV
Battery Box (front) - $130 from local shop
Battery Box (rear) - $250 from local shop MES RM4 Heater/Pump - $308 from Metric Mind
Electric Power Steering Pump (from Toyota MR2 Spyder) - $370 from junk yard
Custom Cables for power steering pump - ? 1/0 and 2/0 cabling/connectors - $327 from Wesbell
Maintenance Switch, power bus bar, 500A contactor - $398 from EVTV
Modular EV Power AVC2 - ? Lot of other various Porsche parts - ?

Below I have but not installed in car... 70A J1772 Charge Cable/Plug (not installed) - ?
J1772 Billet Aluminm Charge Port/Outlet (not installed) - $206 from EVTV
GE Wattstation - $800
PowerLab 6 Battery Workstation - $250 from REVO USA
Four Range Digital Control Voltmeter (not installed) - $110 from EVTV
500A Contactor - $200 from EVTV
Inertia Switch - $130 from EVTV

Total cost - $28,615...does not include any labor and I'm sure I missed LOTS of little things that add up! Willing to take take a huge loss, just ready to move on...

Let me know if you have any questions.

Scott

 

[SCEV]

Realized I didn’t put a price...I’d be willing to take as low as $10k.

 

[SCEV]

$9,500? Come on...someone come take this thing from me!

 

[rwaudio]

The 944 makes a killer EV, come on people pick up what looks like a killer conversion!!
I drive my '86 944 year round, it works amazing and the kids always want to ride in my car vs my GF's 2018 Ioniq hybrid.

Good luck with the sale!

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

While I'm always curious what people want for their vehicles, it does come to mind that this is the worst place to sell them.

The community is "DIY Electric Car". Literally everyone here wants to build their own car, not buy yours.

Part it out, people would probably scoop up the guts.

Where else to sell it?

No one wants to buy a DIY electric vehicle. The only people comfortable with that (since DIY EVs always need the owners to keep an eye on things and be able to troubleshoot them) are those that know enough to build their own, and the only people who do that, are here, and want to build their own.

I think it's an oft-neglected aspect of conversion vehicles, you're getting zilch for them when it's time to sell.

That's my observation anyway, maybe those that have been around longer could share whether they've found that to be true as well.

Honestly I'm interested in the car, (as an idea, not as a plan or a purchase), but, I just want the shell, even though I'd be putting in something almost identical, I don't want to pay for your stuff, I want to put in my own stuff.

 

[SCEV]

Matt,

You make some very good points. I guess what I’m hoping for is someone (like you) to buy the whole thing and tear it apart to start over, and they can decide what to keep and what to sell off. At $9500, you could probably end up getting the “shell” for pretty cheap after parting out the stuff you don’t want.

Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to do it with two young kids...plus it would pain me to take apart what took me so long to put together. 😥

 

[itchyback]

Its a great setup and $9500 represents good value for the parts. Its a tempting sale for someone who wants something similar. You could run it as is, or transfer to another car as a working kit basically. great way to save some money and time.
If i sell mine, i was considering offering a warranty and offering to service it for an agreed rate. who would be better than the guy who built it! Honestly i'd probably put the parts in an offroad buggy or another project.

 

[SCEV]

Bumping this back to the top...

 

[SCEV]

To the top...

 

[dtbaker]

To the top...

I'm following... hoping you eventually sell at a decent price. But there doesn't seem to be much of a market for a used DIY electric car. I've tried on and off to sell my eMiata, and while everybody thinks its cool, most STILL don't think they can live with less than 100 mile range, most are afraid of possible service issues, and even fewer can deal with $10k cash purchase since no banks will loan.

I'm thinking a local car show, or maybe craigslist might be the place to sell....

 

[boekel]

I'd buy it....

if it was registered in my country...another difficulty of selling a car like this to enthusiasts, audience from all over the world.

Good luck selling, price seems good, must be someone that wants it in your area.

 

[jetdexter]

Hi Scott,

I might be interested. I am new to the group here, but have been a Tesla Model S driver for a few years and have been doing a lot of research to build a 944 or 911 EV. I have been leaning to the 944 for a few reasons.

I agree with the folks here that this is a DIY group, so most of us- including me- would prefer to build a car ourselves. The cost isn't the object, it is the build. That being said, you are getting down the the territory of the cost of a decent raw car. Though I was looking to do my conversion differently, if the deal were good enough I may just jump in.

Sadly we are on opposite coasts, so there is shipping to contend with. And I can't inspect it, so we need some long conversations (both on the EV side, but also the chassis itself (rust, suspension, etc).

Let me know your thoughts, and perhaps we PM about it? I have an empty warehouse just waiting for a car to fill it

Paul

 

[SCEV]

Paul, just saw your post...sending you a PM.

- Scott

 

[SCEV]

Dropping to $9k...this is a steal, even if you part it out, I just need it gone!

 

[SCEV]

Or let me know if you are interested in certain parts...maybe I’ll part it out if enough people are interested. 😥

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Sadly, when you customize something you generally lose value on it, not add value. And what you pay to get something new is nowhere near what it's worth used. Just spitballing...

1986 Porsche 944 Turbo - $3700 - Worth $1500 now, maybe.
Warp11 Motor (H60 split top brushes) - $2925 - Probably not worth $300 now. Yours was a good price new, but no one is buying these anymore. If people are spending money they're buying AC for the same price. If people are going cheap, they're using forklift DC. The middle market for new DC motors (and yours isn't even new) doesn't exist anymore.
Motor Mount (ring clamp) - $127 - Probably worth nothing, anyone doing DC builds will weld something. Might help entice the sale of motor though.
EVnetics Soliton 1 - $2800 - Worth $500? Company is out of business so you can't fix them, Damien is selling comparable kits for $1000, P&S are selling for around the same.
Controller Mount - $200 - Worth zero. Car specific. Might entice sale of controller though.
Soliton Throttle - $145 - Worth $50 maybe.
Tachometer Sensor - $100 - Not sure.
Coupler - $360 - Worth $50 maybe, car specific.
Adaptor Plate - $320 - worth $50 maybe, car specific.
Power Steering rack rebuild kit, various bushings/boots - $300 - Worth nothing, sunk costs.
Rebuilt front suspension - $930 - Worth nothing, sunk costs.
64 CALB CA 100 batteries (60 installed, 4 "bad", bottom balanced) - $8168 - Worth maybe $200. Old cells, will have problems, salvaged OEM modules are dirt cheap. No one wants these.
12 CALB CA 100 batteries (not installed, never used) - $1387 - Worth $50 maybe. As above.
MES 70/6E Electric Vacuum Pump - $293 - Worth $150 maybe? Lots of conversions still need them.
JLD 404 Intelligent AH Meter and Chennic 400 Watt Isolated 12v DC-DC Converter - $423 - Worth maybe $100?
Fuse for heater, Fuse for main pack, shunt, battery connections, etc - $963 - Worth $100. Fuses are avaialble from OEM salvage now.
Brusa NLG513-U1-O1l Charger (with cables) - $1995 - Worth $500 maybe? Hard to say without knowing how easily it can be configured and I'm too lazy to look. Might be worth nothing, maybe lots if it's quite variable.
Battery Box (front) - $130 - Worth nothing.
Battery Box (rear) - $250 - Worth nothing.
MES RM4 Heater/Pump - $308 - Worth $100 maybe? Hard to say, many still need this.
Electric Power Steering Pump (from Toyota MR2 Spyder) - $370 - Worth $300? Probably still good value in this, many still need it and salvage is still the way to go.
Custom Cables for power steering pump - ? 1/0 and 2/0 cabling/connectors - $327 - Worth nothing, car specific.
Maintenance Switch, power bus bar, 500A contactor - $398 - Worth $100.

Below I have but not installed in car... 70A J1772 Charge Cable/Plug (not installed) - ?
J1772 Billet Aluminm Charge Port/Outlet (not installed) - $206 - WOrth nothing.
GE Wattstation - $800 - ??
PowerLab 6 Battery Workstation - $250 - ??
Four Range Digital Control Voltmeter (not installed) - $110 - Worth nothing, everyone has a voltmeter and they're $5 if you don't.
500A Contactor - $200 - Worth $50 used.

Adding that up:

$4100 ... if you sell every single part.

It probably has better value as a working car than parting it out, because the market for used, antiquated EV parts is so weak, and so low.

Many of the costs you incur are just immediately sunk as expected-to-be-there-and-working things.

What you're left with is a car that has slightly less value than it did with a gas engine in it, which seems the norm. It would be similar to you giving it a silly paint job and body kit and other mods. They cost you money, but they hurt resale value.

It was a car that was great for you, for the time, but not for many others.

Obviously you took the biggest hit on your batteries/motor/controller, the 3 things that have dropped in price or aren't being used anymore. As a running car, it's not bad.

I think it's fairly reasonable expectations, try selling an old TV or cell phone or camera. Or a used shed or trailer or construction materials. Used and old is a brutal market. You had an awesome $28,000 bleeding-edge car 6 years ago.

I think you should keep it and love it since it's still the same as you built it and it works.

My two cents.

 

[SCEV]

Alright Matt, I’ll take you off the list of interested buyers, lol. Appreciate the feedback, but disagree with a lot of your valuations, especially the batteries...no way 60 “used” (less than 100 cycles) batts are worth $200.

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

disagree with a lot of your valuations, especially the batteries...no way 60 “used” (less than 100 cycles) batts are worth $200.

I might be wrong, I'm trying not to give my personal valuations, just, roughly what stuff would be worth.

From every build thread I've seen in the last year, people here are looking at almost exclusively OEM battery packs which you can pick up for a few hundred. A very small amount of others are purchasing new cells. There's functionally no buyer's market for used large-format cells, especially with the QC issues they've had.

That said, there's hardly any seller's market for them either, since no one's selling. The less information you have about a market the more variable the price will be. Just like the Warp11.

Actually, one group I know of that is looking for used cells is the DIY power wall community. They're paying up to a buck per 18650, and would probably pay a lot for your cells for home backup use. They haven't quite caught on to OEM vehicle packs and are still recycling laptop 18650s and *paying* for the privilege of doing so, a few bucks a pound at that for failed packs. They're thrilled to scoop up auctions for $150-200/kwh of new old stock (failed product launch packs).

Maybe give the secondlifestorage.com forums a listing in their classified section if you opt to part it out.

Sorry for being a negative nancy. The strongest evidence of something's value in a market is simple observation and I'm trying to explain why your car hasn't sold for the price you've asked. By definition, the price must be above its value. By how much, we'll only know when it sells.

...

And, with regard to the cells themselves, on one hand you're right, less than 100 cycles means they're pretty much new. That's good news. . On the other hand, in less than 100 cycles (3 months daily use), 4/60 of them have already gone bad. Plus howevermany more might be damaged. That's minimum 7% failure in 3 months. One could then expect 28% failure in a year. 3.5 years down the road they'd be gone. Perhaps consequences of the bunk "bottom balancing" that's been popularized by folks more interested in ego than integrity.

 

[Murphree]

I just wanted to update this thread to give future prospective buyers an idea on actual transaction value instead of speculated values posted above. I searched high and low on the internet for many of the parts involved in this car and similar builds for months now. Ultimately, I paid right about the $4100 posted above and drove 6 hours roundtrip to save on shipping, but for about 1/3 of the total car. I feel like a got a good deal on the parts, well under 1/2 of what I could have bought them new for and actually less than what the transaction prices posted here and on eBay. The seller stated that he has had good success selling the CALB batteries and now that the motor is out he can post the chassis for sale.

Here are the parts that I purchased:
Evnetics Soliton1
Netgain Warp11 w/ HV brushes and RPM sensor
Brusa NLG513 charger
GE Wattstation 20' Wall charger on a 50a plug
2x 500a contactors
JLD404 & shunt
And a pile of various switches, lengths of heavy gauge cable, bus bars, etc...
I'm basically a battery pack, BMS, and drivetrain adapter away from having everything I'll need for a conversion. I'll post a build thread once I decide for sure which chassis I'm going to use.

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

I'm happy to be wrong. I'm happy that SCEV got some good value for his parts, and I'm happy that you managed to find parts that you were struggling to source.

If SCEV hadn't been selling what you needed, you'd have had to pay a lot more to find someone who was. And if SCEV hadn't found you, he might've had to accept a lot less to get someone to take them.

I stand by the generality of what I said, that, no one is really building this kind of EV conversion anymore. The same dollars are generally much better spent in other ways, which is why everyone's doing that instead. But for someone selling older parts to someone who's specifically looking for older parts, that worked out great for both of you.

I guess I was prematurely and overly dismissive of the middle market DC conversions from new parts. Glad it worked out for everyone.