Thanks for sharing! I'm about to set up a similar system in my Pinto!
1996 chevy s-10 conversion (part 3)
Well, the project is not done (will it ever be?) but I feel like I have moved into a new phase. I drove up to the shop today to work on other things, and so I got some good statistics using the datalogging function on the X144 controller. I was a bit confused by the software at first, but I have to say I am liking all the functionality even with many of the parameters locked out by the distributor. There are some parameters on the motor tab, for instance, that I simply do not understand. Not being able to change them is probably for the best.
I have been trying to get my head around the battery voltage, and how it responds to load. My BMS system communicates with the charger, so the charger cannot cause a problem. When driving, if I exceed the BMS settings for High Cell Cutoff or Low Cell Cutoff, it will sound an alarm; but that is all.
So to protect the cells while driving, I need to set up this map in the X144 software:
![]()
The Over and Under voltage limits are the values that the controller is to never exceed. I have them set for a multiple of 4.20 and 2.95v/cell respectively. My system is 42s, and all my cells are within 0.008v, so that should never drive a cell outside of the max values. I am cutting off my charge when the cells get to 4.10v, and then they immediately droop back a bit - so even rolling down a big hill right after a full charge should not be a problem.
Points B and C are the values where the controller starts derating. If driving it will enter a limp mode, and if charging with regen, I guess it will just taper off the current. I have not driven it when the cells are low, so I have not really tested any of it yet.
The software lets you select any of the parameters it measures, and store them in a datalog with up to 200ms sampling speed. I plugged in my laptop, told it to record Current, Voltage, RPMs, and Motor and Controller temperature every second. It was about a 10 minute drive, so it made a nice big spreadsheet. Open Office was not happy about trying to make a graph out of all of it. It is interesting data, and does basically what you would expect. I found with big bursts of power (200-300A) I would see about 15 volts of sag.
I decided to take the average of the current and the voltage, and multiply them together, to give me the average power. That should more or less check out, right? I knew my travel time, and my distance, so I came up with some consumption numbers. On the way up to the shop I used an average of 12.2kW, for a total of 2.2kWh and 486 wh/mile. Wow, thats terrible I thought! But, it is uphill the whole way, and gains about 600 feet of elevation. So on the way back? It dropped to 5.8kW, only 1.1kWh, and 244Wh/mile. If I average them, I get 365wh/m which seems ... about right. I am not really sure how much my truck weighs, at some point I will have to venture down the to dump with a load of recycling or something just to use their scale. The battery pack in the Merc b250e was supposed to be about 28kwh, so I should be looking at about 75 miles of range if any of these wild conjectures are accurate.
Anyhow, it feels like a start. I have maybe not built the best DIY electric car ever, but I did build one! It even went 55mph before I chickened out and eased off the throttle. Seriously, with all the carpet and trim gone, and the ancient cheap Chevy-grade plastic rattling around inside, it sounds kinda scary
I have been trying to get my head around the battery voltage, and how it responds to load. My BMS system communicates with the charger, so the charger cannot cause a problem. When driving, if I exceed the BMS settings for High Cell Cutoff or Low Cell Cutoff, it will sound an alarm; but that is all.
So to protect the cells while driving, I need to set up this map in the X144 software:
The Over and Under voltage limits are the values that the controller is to never exceed. I have them set for a multiple of 4.20 and 2.95v/cell respectively. My system is 42s, and all my cells are within 0.008v, so that should never drive a cell outside of the max values. I am cutting off my charge when the cells get to 4.10v, and then they immediately droop back a bit - so even rolling down a big hill right after a full charge should not be a problem.
Points B and C are the values where the controller starts derating. If driving it will enter a limp mode, and if charging with regen, I guess it will just taper off the current. I have not driven it when the cells are low, so I have not really tested any of it yet.
The software lets you select any of the parameters it measures, and store them in a datalog with up to 200ms sampling speed. I plugged in my laptop, told it to record Current, Voltage, RPMs, and Motor and Controller temperature every second. It was about a 10 minute drive, so it made a nice big spreadsheet. Open Office was not happy about trying to make a graph out of all of it. It is interesting data, and does basically what you would expect. I found with big bursts of power (200-300A) I would see about 15 volts of sag.
I decided to take the average of the current and the voltage, and multiply them together, to give me the average power. That should more or less check out, right? I knew my travel time, and my distance, so I came up with some consumption numbers. On the way up to the shop I used an average of 12.2kW, for a total of 2.2kWh and 486 wh/mile. Wow, thats terrible I thought! But, it is uphill the whole way, and gains about 600 feet of elevation. So on the way back? It dropped to 5.8kW, only 1.1kWh, and 244Wh/mile. If I average them, I get 365wh/m which seems ... about right. I am not really sure how much my truck weighs, at some point I will have to venture down the to dump with a load of recycling or something just to use their scale. The battery pack in the Merc b250e was supposed to be about 28kwh, so I should be looking at about 75 miles of range if any of these wild conjectures are accurate.
Anyhow, it feels like a start. I have maybe not built the best DIY electric car ever, but I did build one! It even went 55mph before I chickened out and eased off the throttle. Seriously, with all the carpet and trim gone, and the ancient cheap Chevy-grade plastic rattling around inside, it sounds kinda scary
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Well, the truck is doing great electrically, but I am starting to hear noise coming from the transmission! After watching lots of videos on diagnosing the noises, It seems like the pilot bearing is likely the main problem, but I also hear some rattling/whining when I spin up the motor with the clutch engaged and the shifter in neutral. The truck has almost 200k miles, and it would not surprise me if the transmission is due for an overhaul. If I had it to do over again, I would have ponied up a little more money for the donor vehicle. I guess part of me didnt believe I would ever get this thing running, and wanted to cut my losses up front . It is much to late to back out now, so I think I will probably end up taking it in for service. I was quoted about 1500 bucks to have it refurbished; I might call around and get a second opinion. I did find a few places online where you can buy a refurbished unit for about a grand (shipped and with the core charge), but I do not know how reputable that sort of thing is. I would love to hear any input people would have, as I am clearly not a "car guy."
The pilot bearing that came with the motor adapter did not fit very tight, as I recall. I seem to remember I could just slide it in by hand. I am not sure how I am going to deal with that, but I think the first thing is to get it taken apart and maybe get someone who knows what they are doing to come take a look at it.
I recorded how much power I needed to charge back up to full after driving, and I feel pretty confident in my 350 to 375 watthour/mile figure. I signed up with a charging network that is common around here, and at some point I want to test out if my charger will work with a j1772 system. In theory it should, but I am just bypassing the pilot signal and using a modified extension cord to charge up.
. It is much to late to back out now, so I think I will probably end up taking it in for service. I was quoted about 1500 bucks to have it refurbished; I might call around and get a second opinion. I did find a few places online where you can buy a refurbished unit for about a grand (shipped and with the core charge), but I do not know how reputable that sort of thing is. I would love to hear any input people would have, as I am clearly not a "car guy."The pilot bearing that came with the motor adapter did not fit very tight, as I recall. I seem to remember I could just slide it in by hand. I am not sure how I am going to deal with that, but I think the first thing is to get it taken apart and maybe get someone who knows what they are doing to come take a look at it.
I recorded how much power I needed to charge back up to full after driving, and I feel pretty confident in my 350 to 375 watthour/mile figure. I signed up with a charging network that is common around here, and at some point I want to test out if my charger will work with a j1772 system. In theory it should, but I am just bypassing the pilot signal and using a modified extension cord to charge up.
Well, I did install all of it without knowing exactly what I was doing, so anything that is wrong with it will be my fault, of course.
The noise that I believe is coming from the pilot bearing only occurs when the clutch is fully depressed, and goes away as the motor RPM drops off, or the clutch pedal is released. When I drive it, everything sounds okay. Its just that now it squeals when the clutch is depressed, and if I listen to the transmission in neutral when there is no road noise, I can hear what sounds to me like some bearing noise. There is also a tiny leak at the output shaft. I bought the truck for 750 bucks, and it was not operable when I got it, so I have no baseline for what shape the transmission was in.
I will check the hub, but I seriously doubt it has moved. It was heated to 400F and then just dropped onto the shaft with a plunk. Once it cools it locks on with a death-grip. I know this, because I had to take it in to a motor shop to have it pried off when I botched the first try at getting it on right. My little 2 ton pulley puller would not even budge it. I did check the flywheel hub with a dial indicator, and it was within spec for run-out.
Throwout bearing is bad.Well, I did install all of it without knowing exactly what I was doing, so anything that is wrong with it will be my fault, of course.
The noise that I believe is coming from the pilot bearing only occurs when the clutch is fully depressed, and goes away as the motor RPM drops off, or the clutch pedal is released. When I drive it, everything sounds okay. Its just that now it squeals when the clutch is depressed, and if I listen to the transmission in neutral when there is no road noise, I can hear what sounds to me like some bearing noise. There is also a tiny leak at the output shaft. I bought the truck for 750 bucks, and it was not operable when I got it, so I have no baseline for what shape the transmission was in.
I will check the hub, but I seriously doubt it has moved. It was heated to 400F and then just dropped onto the shaft with a plunk. Once it cools it locks on with a death-grip. I know this, because I had to take it in to a motor shop to have it pried off when I botched the first try at getting it on right. My little 2 ton pulley puller would not even budge it. I did check the flywheel hub with a dial indicator, and it was within spec for run-out.
Well, it has been a while... I got way overextended with all my projects, and the truck just got parked. It pained me at first to keep walking past it, and then I just sort of stopped seeing it altogether. Anyway, I am getting caught up on my other priorities, so I have made some time to dig into the truck again.
I got it up on stands, and dropped the transmission out. The winner of the "how did you manage to mess this up?" award is Electro wrks!
- my critical distance was not lining up. The flywheel position had changed relative to the transmission. How critical is the critical distance? Clearly 1mm is not close enough. The pilot shaft had made contact with the hub adapter, and was merrily drilling away at the steel in its free time (Or whenever I pressed the clutch, at any rate). I recall at my first test drive I thought my clutch was sticking, but it had simply not broken free yet.
There was evidence that the shaft tip had heated up, and that caused the pilot bushing to stick to the shaft, so it was just spinning around in its race. The bushing being soft, I do not think it damaged the shaft. I took the transmission in to a shop to have the rest of it looked at, and then my plan is to just file down the shaft by 1mm. I ordered a new pilot bushing, and some special loctite to make sure it stays put.
Anyway, while I have it in the shop I have been working some wrapping up some loose ends. I tested the coolant heater, and the 220v hotwater tank element is working great. It puts out about 1100W at 162 volts. I have a temperature controller that cycles it on and off, trying to get the temp up to 15C. I didnt time it, but it does raise the battery temperature accornding to the BMS. I suspect that in cold weather the heater going and the heat from driving will get them up to temp pretty quickly. I will just have to remember to shut off regen until they have warmed up a bit.
Today I also worked on getting my cab heater sorted out. I used 2x 220v PTC heater elements that I had from another project - and a couple of 12v computer fans. It blows nice hot air, although it smells a little funny. My amp meter says it is drawing 4 amps, so around 600 watts. I am cautiously optimistic.
Once the transmission is back in, I really need to drive it a bit and see how much range I might possibly have. I think having at least a good guess will make me less hesitant to venture out with it.
Little by little adds up to a lot.
I got it up on stands, and dropped the transmission out. The winner of the "how did you manage to mess this up?" award is Electro wrks!
I did not! As Brian surely remembers, and can likely quote you the day I said it from memory
- my critical distance was not lining up. The flywheel position had changed relative to the transmission. How critical is the critical distance? Clearly 1mm is not close enough. The pilot shaft had made contact with the hub adapter, and was merrily drilling away at the steel in its free time (Or whenever I pressed the clutch, at any rate). I recall at my first test drive I thought my clutch was sticking, but it had simply not broken free yet.There was evidence that the shaft tip had heated up, and that caused the pilot bushing to stick to the shaft, so it was just spinning around in its race. The bushing being soft, I do not think it damaged the shaft. I took the transmission in to a shop to have the rest of it looked at, and then my plan is to just file down the shaft by 1mm. I ordered a new pilot bushing, and some special loctite to make sure it stays put.
Anyway, while I have it in the shop I have been working some wrapping up some loose ends. I tested the coolant heater, and the 220v hotwater tank element is working great. It puts out about 1100W at 162 volts. I have a temperature controller that cycles it on and off, trying to get the temp up to 15C. I didnt time it, but it does raise the battery temperature accornding to the BMS. I suspect that in cold weather the heater going and the heat from driving will get them up to temp pretty quickly. I will just have to remember to shut off regen until they have warmed up a bit.
Today I also worked on getting my cab heater sorted out. I used 2x 220v PTC heater elements that I had from another project - and a couple of 12v computer fans. It blows nice hot air, although it smells a little funny. My amp meter says it is drawing 4 amps, so around 600 watts. I am cautiously optimistic.
Once the transmission is back in, I really need to drive it a bit and see how much range I might possibly have. I think having at least a good guess will make me less hesitant to venture out with it.
Little by little adds up to a lot.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
