[HydronCollider]

Hey Everyone,

This build should be be the ultimate test for DIY EV conversions. If I can do it anyone can. I have no experience whatsoever. Ive never changed a car tire, wiper blade, even oil (ha ha). Ive never welded or worked with metal at all.I also have no clue about electronics. I'd like to believe I have the capacity to learn quickly. I just got all the tools I need for Christmas, and ive been learning all I can from this site for 2 months. I got a 2002 Kia Rio(manual) for $150 with a dead ICE.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0008.jpg

I have 2 forklift motors (I really lucked out I think) an 11' series, and I think a 6.7' series (female spline shaft pump motor 2 terminal). Ive been cleaning up the larger motor over the past month.

before:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0214.jpg

after:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/DSC_0010.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0005.jpg

heres the small one:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0221.jpg

I think the 11' is going to be a few inches to long to fit so I may be stuck using the pump motor. I'll have to see after I figure out how to remove the ICE.

Im thinking of starting at 48 volts but eventually moving to 72, at which time I will advance the motor timing. The 11' motor brushes are on a ring which will make it easy, I havent opened up the smaller motor yet.

So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!

P.S Im trying to keep the total build cost $xxx.xx

Cheers!

 

[major]

So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!

Hi Hydron,

Nice clean up on the 11 incher. Kinda looks like a GE. It has a massive DEH (drive end head). You could probably machine 15 pounds off that sucker. And yeah, maybe a bit overkill for your car, but if it can fit in, WTH

And the pump motor is an Allis Chalmers Norwood (they made their own motors for forklifts up to about 1978). And I think it is like 7.2 or 7.5 inch diameter. If it is in good shape inside all that grime, it would be a strong puller, better than most modern 6.6 inchers. But you'd have to contend with the internal spline shaft

Go for it.....Good start

major

 

[mrbigh]

So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!

P.S Im trying to keep the total build cost $xxx.xx

Cheers!

Nice motors find...

 

[Duncan]

Hi Hydron

I think the 11' is going to be a few inches to long to fit

What is it fouling on?, its probably better to move whatever is in the way - If it is the side of the engine bay have a look behind, there is normally a bit of clearance

It may be better to get some performance front struts (second hand) with smaller coil springs (I have some TEIN ones for my Subaru suspension that have springs half the size of the standard ones)

And then dress (means wallop with big hammer) the metal back to get clearance for your motor

do it nicely and then paint it up to look like its meant to be like that

 

[HydronCollider]

Hey Major, Thanks for the response. Ive recently read through the whole forklift motor thread, and if it wasn't for guys like you and Jim I defiantly wouldn't be doing this, So thanks for sticking to it! I forgot to link the plate pics. Heres the big motor plate.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0212.jpg
Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts, so does that mean if I double the voltage I will only get double the RPM? I dont think that would be enough.

Heres the smaller motors plate
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0220.jpg
bigger RPM,HP and duty
also I just picked up a 5/8' 9 spline shaft for this from a machine shop. They will attach it to the clutch plate for me if I go with this motor.

heres the link to my photobucket album for anyone thats interested
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/

Duncan, Thanks for the info! Ill have to take a look at the wheel well to see how much room can be spared, and see if small springs will help. The bigger motor would defiantly be more fun. I also thought about cutting the shaft off on the CE as this motor has shaft on both ends, I wouldn't want to ruin the future potential of this motor tho.

Once I figure out the motor stuff its controller time. I have the EV-100 forklift controller. Im going to try that out. I see that many have tried and given up.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0007.jpg
The controller is apparently good up to 80v but the contactors are only rated for 48v. Maybee I can use them for 72v? hehe dont know if I should try.

 

[Duncan]

Hy Hydron

Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts

There are two things here - the speed is limited by "back EMF" this is what increasing the voltage fixes - I believe that at 36 volts the motor would probably NOT be limited to 960 rpm - at 72 volts it will probably be limited to ~ 4000rpm

The other "thing" is at what speed will the centrifugal force rip the comm apart or pull the windings out of the armature

I am hoping that my 11 inch motor will be good to 5000rpm

Major can you help us here?

Should we both be stripping our motors and trying to glue some fiberglass banding to the comm segments outside the brush zones???

 

[major]

Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts, so does that mean if I double the voltage I will only get double the RPM?

Hi Hydro,

Your nameplate reads 6.7 hp at 960 RPM so that is 36.7 lb.ft. rated (1 hr). If you double the voltage to 72V, then at rated current (and torque) you will see about 1920 RPM (13.4 HP). Not too shabby. And being a series motor, at lesser loads, it will be faster, but at lower hp. Depending on gear selection, I would expect you could see 3000 plus RPM at 72V.

And Dunc,

I don't think trying to band comms is a good idea. These should be good for 4000 and that is a good design speed. I think they could probably withstand 5000, but would not operate that high on purpose.

Hydro,

You can always use a simple resistor in series with a 48V contactor coil if you have 72V. It'd get you going for a few cents.

Regards,

major

 

[major]

Ive recently read through the whole forklift motor thread,

Kool

1,344 posts, 187,537 views Amazing thread Should be put into book form. Maybe a best seller

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html

I just e-spoke to Jim Husted yesterday. He doesn't visit this board much anymore, but is still kickin'. He did leave us a legacy with that thread.

 

[Duncan]

Thanks Major,

I expect to remain below 4000rpm - except when I am being a hooligan on the track!

 

[HydronCollider]

Progress update: De-ICEing

Last weekend I removed the radiator, coolant system, exhaust system (reciprocating saw).
Today I removed the engine!! I was worried I would never get it out but it was alot easier than I expected. Took about 3 hours.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0670.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0669.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0672.jpg

I also picked up a couple used UPS batteries, I will be able to get more shortly.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0676.jpg

My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see.

I also have to find some steel to start working on mounts for the motor and batteries.

 

[Woodsmith]

My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see.

That shouldn't be too difficult, the only place it can spill from, once the pipes are all removed, is the filler neck and that should be upwards or near the top of the tank.

Place some blocks under the tank so that it only needs to drop a small distance and then slowly lower it down balanced on a trolley jack.
You can then decant the gas into cans and use it for your chainsaw, mower or sell it to your neighbours.

The tank is at its most dangerous when it is empty as you then have an enclosed container of highly flamable vapour.
On a windy day take the completely empty tank outside and place it upside down so the lowest point is the filler neck. The fumes will then spill out and disperse, being heavier then air. Then fill the thing with water until you dispose of it.
It goes without saying, no naked lights, sparks, metal on anything abrasive near the tank until the tank is away.

I left my tank outside upsidedown for months before I got rid of it.

 

[HydronCollider]

I did 12v bench tests on both motors today, and I think Ive hit a wall. The small motor which I planned on using in the car spins the wrong way for the tranny (2 terminal motor). It continues to spin the wrong way even when I reverse the battery terminal connections. The large motor spins but i hear a click on CE every revolution.

 

[major]

I did 12v bench tests on both motors today, and I think Ive hit a wall. The small motor which I planned on using in the car spins the wrong way for the tranny (2 terminal motor). It continues to spin the wrong way even when I reverse the battery terminal connections. The large motor spins but i hear a click on CE every revolution.

Hey Hydro,

Walls.....Challenges....you just have to climb over them. Take that pump motor apart and see if you can figure out how to move the connection from the A terminal to the other 2 brushes and then those connections to the lead from the field coil set. That will reverse the polarity to the armature and reverse rotation. Or maybe twist the comm end casting 90°.

On the big motor, sounds like a high comm bar. Can you borrow a dial indicator from that machine shop or take the armature in there and have them indicate it? A skin cut on the lathe may true it up and not cost too much.

Dig into that pump motor and post some pics.

major

 

[VoltsCar]

My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see.

You should be able to run the stock fuel pump and run it out the lines into a container to transfer the gas into another car.

 

[HydronCollider]

Thanks Major, I hope I can figure it out. I took the motor apart. Heres whats inside
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0698.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/cecasing.jpg
theres more in my photobucket album.
So I color coded the pic of the end cap to make it easier on me, ha ha. Im thinking to reverse the polarity I need to make the yellow terminal connect to the red brushes with no field coil connection, then move the red field coil connection to the yellow brushes. (not sure if thats right, i may have to reverse the field coil connections too?)

I also had another set back, tried to start removing the transmission and the ball joint bolt broke (nut end), and the head end is stripping....ugggggg. might have to try and drill it.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0708.jpg

I also picked up some 1/4' steel for $10 at a scrap yard. I think ill double it up for the adapter plate. Started chunking away at it with the recripicating saw
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0713.jpg

 

[major]

Heres whats inside
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/SAM_0698.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/cecasing.jpg
theres more in my photobucket album.
So I color coded the pic of the end cap to make it easier on me, ha ha. Im thinking to reverse the polarity I need to make the yellow terminal connect to the red brushes with no field coil connection, then move the red field coil connection to the yellow brushes. (not sure if thats right, i may have to reverse the field coil connections too?)

Hi Hydro,

Yep, you got the idea. Once you switch the brush connections, field coil polarity remains the same. No alterations required.

Regards,

major

 

[HydronCollider]

Back in business with the motor!!! And I now have a much better understanding of how electric motors work after some trial and error. Last weekend I failed at my attempt to reverse the direction. I turned the end cap cw 90 degrees but kept the connections in the same spots they were before the 90 degree rotation. (I was thinking I was hooking each connection to the alternate set of brushes, which I was) but once the motor still spun in the wrong direction I realized that I need to change the connections relative to the field coils. So this weekend I fixed it. I kept the 90 degree rotation. I connected the A terminal strait to the brushes (90 degrees cw to the brush it was originally connected to) then I cut down & drilled a new lug hole on the copper connection field coil output that originally connected to the brush that I put the A terminal on. I bolted a battery cable to that connection and connected the other end back ccw90 degrees (This cable is outside of the case due to the width). I also bolted a battery cable to the field coil input (battery) connection. (due to the end cap 90 deg rotation there is no longer a terminal hole).

After reading this back to myself it looks confusing. But I did exactly what me and Major spoke about in my color diagram. This reason it didn’t work for me the first time is I was trying a short cut.

I hope the motor doesn't blow up after all this modification, I'm wondering if I should even attempt advancing the timing. Also an observation I made: the brushes are angeled for the other direction of rotation, tho it dosent seem to be making a difference.

I also got the gas tank out, very messy and stinky.

So now it time to battle the tranny, and what a battle it is. I got the drivers side ball joint finally out. But the cv joint to the tranny is not budging, and I have a huge pry bar. I heard there could be a clip but I didnt see anything.

Its coming along, but my timelines are tough, I'm working with 3-4 hours every sunday.

 

[major]

Back in business with the motor!!! And I now have a much better understanding of how electric motors work after some trial and error. Last weekend I failed ...........So this weekend I fixed it.

Hey kid,

Good job

the brushes are angeled for the other direction of rotation, tho it dosent seem to be making a difference.

That angle has nothing to do with rotation. It just keeps the chattering down. The important thing is the centerline of the brush contact patch on the comm and angle from there to the centerline of the pole shoes in the frame. I know it is kind hard to project it over all the uneven surfaces. Maybe a photo and straight edge would help.

Keep at it. Havin' some good old motor fun now

major

 

[HydronCollider]

I got my coupler!!! Very excited!! I brought the Shaft for the female spline motor and the clutch plate to a machine shop and a day later they gave me back my coupler. Under $100.

They welded a big chunk of steel in between the shaft and clutch plate, then turned it on the lathe. the hole in the tranny side of the coupler goes just over 2 inches deep as the shaft is 2 inches.The 9 spline male end slides into the female pump motor. Sure hope it works! Probably should have discussed this in the forum first, but once I got that motor spinning in the right direction I couldnt wait to get my hands on a coupler!

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0894.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/SAM_0889.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0888.jpg

 

[Jimdear2]

HydronCollider,

This coupler may or may not work. It really depends on if your transmission's main input shaft requires the support given by a "pilot" bearing.

It will be pretty easy to check. If your trans input shaft can be moved radialy this coupler won't work (at least not for long). These type tranmissions required the end of the input shaft be supported by the "pilot" bearing that was usually located in the end of the crankshaft or sometimes in the flywheel.

Without this spport the input shaft will wobble and eventually tear up/out the front bearing in the transmission

If your transmission requires a pilot bearing your coupler can probably be modified to work with the addition of a support plate and bearing and a little more mchine work.

Some pictures of the transmission input shaft and the crankshaft/flywheel will allow us to probably identify the type.


EDIT,

Found your photobucket, and located two pictures that pretty much identifies this transaxle as the type that requires a pilot bearing for support of the input shaft.

Not all is lost, as I said you will have to support the outer end of the transsmission input shaft with a bearing. There are several ways to do this. The simplest would be to support the coupler with a bearing that is mounted into a plate bolted to the front of the transmission. you would ned to put a centering bushinto the coupler.

I can recommend that you study how the outer end of the transmission input shaft was supported by engine crankshaft by the pilot bearing (this could be just a bushing). The male / female spline of the motor you are using will not give suffient centering.

DO NOT run this trabsmission without this support, You WILL destroy the transmission eventually if you do.

It can be fixed, just step back, think a bit and get a handle on what needs to be done. You got this far you can get all the way.