2012 Azure Transit Connect P0B3F-F1 Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense A Circuit Intermitte

6019 Views 21 Replies 9 Participants Last post by iura, 7 mo ago

okashira

Discussion Starter · Nov 13, 2017

Hi guys

I have a 2012 AZD transit connect with only 82 miles on the clock.
When I got it, it did not run or charge, and I found two cells at 0v.
I replaced one of the cells, and the other cell charged up and holds a charge fine.

Btw, I made the replacement cell out of 21 18650 cells in parallel from a 2016 Model S ;-)
pics: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuqwBZb5n5Jqgu1KRHYx_pEuam5Vuw

Anyway, after fixing everything else and putting the pack back together I got the van so it can drive, ac works, etc.
But pack 2 is throwing errors and wont come online. So the van runs in limp mode and won't charge.

Here are the codes:
-----ESS Pack 2 Info Codes-----
P0AFC-49 Hybrid Battery Pack Sensor Module
P0B3F-F1 Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense A Circuit Intermittent / Erratic

-----VCU DTC-----
P1A28 Battery Control Module "B" Critical Fault (same as P1A20)
P1A8B HV Discharger Status Circuit High

Anyone have any parts or insight?

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1 - 20 of 22 Posts

okashira

Discussion Starter · #2 · Nov 14, 2017

After another 4 hours of experimenting and diagnosis Ive narrowed it down to one bad BMS module board.

It looks grungy because ive been trying to clean off the conformal coating.

It has two AD7280 BMS chips
and a 32 bit NEC micro controller

The van has a total of 16 of these boards, only one is bad and giving the voltage sense code.

Does anyone know anyone who might have some of these boards?

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kennybobby

· #3 · Nov 14, 2017 (Edited)

Looks like twelve cells per module board, all the cells are good? Looks like 3 parallel bleed resistors per cell for balancing--can you read the resistor value?

First thing i would do is use a multimeter to check for a short thru one of those little yellow ceramic chip capacitors--they are notoriously prone to chip and crack, and create a shorted path. Quick and easy to check and not hard to fix if one is bad.

The board looks simple enough to trace out and draw a schematic, but getting the code out of the NEC chip would be tough. It looks like a resistor divider network to measure voltage and FETs to drive the bleed balancers, with a high- and low-voltage isolation barrier and serial communication across the barrier (opto couplers).

All this is very similar to that used on the Tesla boards with one important exception related to redundancy and fault-tolerance--Tesla has it, but i don't see it on the Azure board.

p.s. Thanks for posting the picture, can you identify the other ICs on the board?

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okashira

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 14, 2017

kennybobby said:
Looks like twelve cells per module board, all the cells are good? Looks like 3 parallel bleed resistors per cell for balancing--can you read the resistor value?

First thing i would do is use a multimeter to check for a short thru one of those little yellow ceramic chip capacitors--they are notoriously prone to chip and crack, and create a shorted path. Quick and easy to check and not hard to fix if one is bad.

The board looks simple enough to trace out and draw a schematic, but getting the code out of the NEC chip would be tough. It looks like a resistor divider network to measure voltage and FETs to drive the bleed balancers, with a high- and low-voltage isolation barrier and serial communication across the barrier (opto couplers).

All this is very similar to that used on the Tesla boards with one important exception related to redundancy and fault-tolerance--Tesla has it, but i don't see it on the Azure board.

p.s. Thanks for posting the picture, can you identify the other ICs on the board?

Good idea on checking caps... will do.
Though I think if one is shorted the BMS would report 0v for a cell :-( which it does not.

I'll just plug it in and measure the voltage at the 12 cell inputs to the BMS chips

okashira

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 14, 2017

kennybobby said:
Looks like twelve cells per module board, all the cells are good? Looks like 3 parallel bleed resistors per cell for balancing--can you read the resistor value?

First thing i would do is use a multimeter to check for a short thru one of those little yellow ceramic chip capacitors--they are notoriously prone to chip and crack, and create a shorted path. Quick and easy to check and not hard to fix if one is bad.

The board looks simple enough to trace out and draw a schematic, but getting the code out of the NEC chip would be tough. It looks like a resistor divider network to measure voltage and FETs to drive the bleed balancers, with a high- and low-voltage isolation barrier and serial communication across the barrier (opto couplers).

All this is very similar to that used on the Tesla boards with one important exception related to redundancy and fault-tolerance--Tesla has it, but i don't see it on the Azure board.

p.s. Thanks for posting the picture, can you identify the other ICs on the board?

I measured the resistance of the bleed resistors got 50ohm.

I just plugged the bad board into the module and measured the voltages at the test points near the analog devices BMS chips, and they all read correct ~3.59V. So no bad caps. The voltage is making it to the BMS chips.
So for some reason the microcontroller is getting a bad value.

I might try to replace the BMS chips?

here are higher res pics of the board (and it's sister board from the other pack)
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuqwBZb5n5Jqgu1hJtIip--wssZzuw

Here are the test points where I checked good voltage. These go to the voltage sense pins on the analog devices BMS chips

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okashira

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 14, 2017

Just ordered two of these from Mouser.
I guess not too much harm in trying to desolder and replace those two chips.

https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produ...TZvirtualkey58430000virtualkey584-AD8280WASTZ

okashira

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 18, 2017

No dice. I replaced the two AD7280 chips with AD7280A, and it throws the same code. :-(
I need to find someone who has a transit connect battery pack they would be willing to scrap or even a single PCB.

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3

kennybobby

· #8 · Nov 18, 2017

Are the cells labelled by letters, e.g. "cell A, cell B,..." or are they referred to by numbers, "cell 1, cell 2, cell3, etc..? Does the ESS report each cell voltage such that you could identify which cell or circuit has the defect (temperature sensor and voltage sensor)--maybe it is a reference voltage issue since it affects 2 different type sensors?

Worse case you could measure every resistor and see if they compare with the value. e.g. the balancer resistors are "151" or 150 Ohms, but there are 3 in parallel so the total across is only 50 Ohms. A bad resistor in a voltage divider circuit would give incorrect data and throw the DTC. It's tough to troubleshoot without a schematic, that's why i try to trace everything i can and draw it up--someday it will need to be repaired...

okashira

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 18, 2017

The diagnostic software does not show all voltages. only min and max.
I posted pics of everything I can see.

The temperature sensor error is because i swapped the AD7280 for the AD7280A, and Analog Devices changed how the thermistor voltage is referenced. It is something I can fix.

I am going to see if an "ALERT" is being triggered by either ad7280 and sent to the uC.

gjsolar

· #10 · Apr 27, 2018

Hi, Just wondered how this progressed ? I've just started with an isolation fault on pack 1 of my Transit Connect Battery and so plan to investigate further.

dtbaker

· #11 · Apr 14, 2021

gjsolar said:
Hi, Just wondered how this progressed ? I've just started with an isolation fault on pack 1 of my Transit Connect Battery and so plan to investigate further.

was this fixed?
was it a BMS board, or something else?
please share!

2011 Azure

· #12 · May 17, 2022

Following

Seb34567

· #13 · 11 mo ago

Following

iura

· #14 · 11 mo ago

FS: 2012 Azure Dynamics Ford Transit Connect (EV CARGO VAN!)

CliffordK

· #15 · 11 mo ago

For those who are hunting, you may find this EBay ad interesting.

rover.ebay.com

Azure Ford Connect Battery BMS Slave Board | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Azure Ford Connect Battery BMS Slave Board at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

rover.ebay.com

Currently my vehicle is working.

I'm curious if as a community we can repair or replace bad BMS boards. So I would like to get a good one and a bad one side by side, without tearing down my van.

Are the boards battery specific? How is it keyed?

Anyway, let the feeding frenzy begin, and I may go after some scraps afterwards.

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CliffordK

· #16 · 11 mo ago

Circuit component Green Hardware programmer Passive circuit component Electronic component

It looks like there are about 5 large capacitors on the back of the board. Make sure the caps are absolutely flat on top, not leaking, and not swollen.

Is the "JCI" mark for Johnson's Controls? It would be worth contacting them for support or spares.

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iura

· #17 · 11 mo ago

Hi all
for almost two years I tried to repair these boards, but without success, there was not enough knowledge

.
The defect lies in the fact that, they cannot measure either voltage, or temperature, or both.
Even worse, these boards have their own numbers, probably from 0 to 7, which are written in the soft, but ... the boards are not labeled.
I.e. if a board is not working and if you replaced it (if you do not know its number), the new board may not turn on and it can turn off another, working board, if their numbers accidentally match.
In my opinion, this is a biggest problem, you don’t know wich number of board you are buying.
But it's great, that they're on sale.

okashira

Discussion Starter · #18 · 11 mo ago

The boards cannot be repaired really. Yes, I tried contacting johnson controls. They were quite unhelpful. Refused to share any information.
You have to get a board from a donor van. And each BMS board is specific to the module, they cannot be swapped.
I took a board #5 from a donor van in the UK and swapped it in and it worked.
I recommend redoing everything custom with replacement VCU

iura

· #19 · 11 mo ago

Hello to all Azure owners,
Special regards okashira

, your awesome review helped us to understand many of the nuances of this battery problems.
A bit of history: my car went bad (one BMS board died) and it was impossible to repair it. During the repair process, it turned out, that all the boards have its own individual place number that is flashing at some stage of the assembly of the battery (this is only my guess

). The boards themselves are not visually numbered. There will be great luck, if you determine exactly, on which module the board is bad, and get it from the same module. I was lucky, but I was looking for spare board for about two years.

There is another car with a "recessed" battery, from 16 boards 9 work separately, but I can't pick up 8 to make half of the battery to work.
From another side, there is a “Flash tool” soft for this car to flash all car moduls, but in battery you can flash only a processor, but not the BMS, that is very illogical, maybe this is not a full version and there is another one?
It's a great idea to use a completely different BMS, maybe from LEAF, but how to connect it to car?
For all of us, this is a huge problem; sooner or later we all can get this kind of malfunction. That’s bad.
Any suggestions are welcome.

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saun2020

· #20 · 9 mo ago

okashira said:
Hi guys

I have a 2012 AZD transit connect with only 82 miles on the clock.
When I got it, it did not run or charge, and I found two cells at 0v.
I replaced one of the cells, and the other cell charged up and holds a charge fine.

Btw, I made the replacement cell out of 21 18650 cells in parallel from a 2016 Model S ;-)
pics: Shared items 11-13-2017 1

Anyway, after fixing everything else and putting the pack back together I got the van so it can drive, ac works, etc.
But pack 2 is throwing errors and wont come online. So the van runs in limp mode and won't charge.

Here are the codes:
-----ESS Pack 2 Info Codes-----
P0AFC-49 Hybrid Battery Pack Sensor Module
P0B3F-F1 Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense A Circuit Intermittent / Erratic

-----VCU DTC-----
P1A28 Battery Control Module "B" Critical Fault (same as P1A20)
P1A8B HV Discharger Status Circuit High

Anyone have any parts or insight?

Hello, I heard that this is the battery goes in to these 2011 Ford transit connect vans.

www.aliexpress.com

184.24US $ 2% OFF|3.7v 50ah Lithium Ion Battery Li Ion Cylindrical Battery 54210 With 150a High Discharge For Scooter Bike Inverter Speaker Rv - Rechargeable Batteries - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I found this batteries on Ali Express. Each cell is 50Ah 3.7V. Dimensions are 55mm by 210mm. But before I order, I just want to confirm that these cells are going to fit for the existing battery pack compartment of the 2011 Electric Ford transit connect.

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