300ZX Finally Got the Time and the Money.

2864 Views 12 Replies 6 Participants Last post by rwaudio, Feb 16, 2011

Nomad

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2011 (Edited)

Now I need some updating as to what is new in the EV world.

I'm looking to push around 300-350HP
Warp 11HV is what I'm looking at for an Engine(but I don't think it has the power I want.)
144v 50+5 3.2v 120AH LifePO4 Batteries (5C) rated So 580Apps I could pull if needed.(Think I'm light on batteries as well)
This should give me about a 20kW pak
At the speeds and power I demand I'm not looking for anything more than 50Miles out of it.

I don't know about a controller ??

I am in dallas.

Changer in the Car, with BMS.

How is this sounding so far?

two things I'm not sure of yet... Heat and AC

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rwaudio

· #2 · Feb 11, 2011 (Edited)

Nomad said:
Now I need some updating as to what is new in the EV world.

I'm looking to push around 300-350HP
Warp 11HV is what I'm looking at for an Engine(but I don't think it has the power I want.)
144v 50+5 3.2v 120AH LifePO4 Batteries (5C) rated So 580Apps I could pull if needed.
This should give me about a 20,000watt pak
At the speeds and power I demand I'm not looking for anything more than 50Miles out of it.

I don't know about a controller ??

I am in dallas.

Changer in the Car, with BMS.

How is this sounding so far?

two things I'm not sure of yet... Heat and AC

The Warp11HV is a good MOTOR and should do 300+ hp in short bursts without overheating. However the battery system you mention won't come close. 144v and 580A = a peak of 83kw or 112hp (from the battery)
Assuming the motor is 75-80% efficient at that power level (questionable) then you have at most 85-90hp shaft hp, then you subtract losses in the transmission etc and you have less than that.

To really get anything out of a Warp11HV you should be looking at a battery pack and controller that will work around 300V and can put out as close to 1000A as possible.

Do some research on the Soliton1, WarpDrive, Zilla 1k -hv or -ehv, Zilla 2k -hv or -ehv.

Then do some research on batteries, look up Headway, A123 to give you an idea of what might be required without a huge amount of weight.

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Nomad

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 11, 2011

rwaudio said:
The Warp11HV is a good MOTOR and should do 300+ hp in short bursts without overheating. However the battery system you mention won't come close. 144v and 580A = a peak of 83kw or 112hp (from the battery)
Assuming the motor is 75-80% efficient at that power level (questionable) then you have at most 85-90hp shaft hp, then you subtract losses in the transmission etc and you have less than that.

To really get anything out of a Warp11HV you should be looking at a battery pack and controller that will work around 300V and can put out as close to 1000A as possible.

Do some research on the Soliton1, WarpDrive, Zilla 1k -hv or -ehv, Zilla 2k -hv or -ehv.

Then do some research on batteries, look up Headway, A123 to give you an idea of what might be required without a huge amount of weight.

I knew the batteries wern't going to be enough. And I should have corrected myself. In the EV world, HP isn't everything. I want it to feel like a 300HP car. Doesn't need to dyno like one.

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Nomad

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 11, 2011

144v and 580A = a peak of 83kw or 112hp (from the battery)

What is / Where can I find the formula for this?

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rwaudio

· #5 · Feb 11, 2011

Nomad said:
I knew the batteries wern't going to be enough. And I should have corrected myself. In the EV world, HP isn't everything. I want it to feel like a 300HP car. Doesn't need to dyno like one.

What's the curb weight on the 300zx? I looked at one as a donor, but I thought they were pretty heavy (nice car though but I could only find right hand drive stick shifts) and I went for the Porsche instead.

Regardless though, if you aren't going to run a high voltage pack don't go for the HV motor because you just won't get enough useable RPM out of it. If you stick to 144v stay with a regular warp11.

What kind of performance goals do you have?
300hp doesn't mean much in general, my truck has almost 300hp but it's slower than shit compared to my g35 which is just over 300hp.
My Porsche should blow them both away, but I'll have to wait and see.

Jack R. seemed slightly disappointed in the performance of his speedster with a Warp9, Soliton1, and 190ish V of CALB 180AH cells.
0-60 in 10 seconds (with two good size men in it, but still) and a curb weight of 23xxlbs.

Good luck though, I think the 300zx would make a sweet EV even if it is a bit on the heavy side.

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Nomad

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 11, 2011 (Edited)

performance... ya. 0-60 in 10 seconds isn't going to cut it, not even close.
Back to the drawing board with me it seems. I need like 5-6secs

it's a heavy car, but once your drop all the things needed for Gas it gets really light fast.

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rwaudio

· #7 · Feb 11, 2011

Nomad said:
144v and 580A = a peak of 83kw or 112hp (from the battery)

What is / Where can I find the formula for this?

Power = peak current from the battery X battery voltage under load
(I used your nominal battery voltage for simplicity but it will actually be lower when you try to draw max current)
P=IV
P=580x144
P=83520watts 83.52kw
746watts = 1hp
83520watts = 111.957hp (this is peak electrical hp, you need to consider efficiency of the motor to estimate shaft hp)

My design uses a Soliton1 with the Warp11HV and a 307v nominal pack of headway cells (80AH)
Peak battery current is just over 1000A but will sag to about 260V
P=IV
P=260kw
hp=348 (electrical)
at 80% efficiency shaft hp=278
at 1000 motor amps maximum torque is in the range of 300ft-lbs

Insert your numbers and enjoy playing....

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Tesseract

· #8 · Feb 12, 2011

rwaudio said:
Jack R. seemed slightly disappointed in the performance of his speedster with a Warp9, Soliton1, and 190ish V of CALB 180AH cells.
0-60 in 10 seconds (with two good size men in it, but still) and a curb weight of 23xxlbs.

Finding the best combination of voltage, current, gear ratio, etc. to achieve the best 0-60 time is an iterative process. We've been working with Jack Rickard to try to help him improve his times, but try to keep in mind that none of us are "racers", per se, and so not real qualified to help out much here. That said, if you look at how much time is spent at 100% duty cycle in the attached graph from one of J.R.'s runs it's pretty obvious that either a higher gear or more pack voltage is needed.

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Nomad

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 12, 2011

rwaudio said:
What's the curb weight on the 300zx? I looked at one as a donor, but I thought they were pretty heavy (nice car though but I could only find right hand drive stick shifts) and I went for the Porsche instead.

Regardless though, if you aren't going to run a high voltage pack don't go for the HV motor because you just won't get enough useable RPM out of it. If you stick to 144v stay with a regular warp11.

What kind of performance goals do you have?
300hp doesn't mean much in general, my truck has almost 300hp but it's slower than shit compared to my g35 which is just over 300hp.
My Porsche should blow them both away, but I'll have to wait and see.

Jack R. seemed slightly disappointed in the performance of his speedster with a Warp9, Soliton1, and 190ish V of CALB 180AH cells.
0-60 in 10 seconds (with two good size men in it, but still) and a curb weight of 23xxlbs.

Good luck though, I think the 300zx would make a sweet EV even if it is a bit on the heavy side.

Tesseract said:
Finding the best combination of voltage, current, gear ratio, etc. to achieve the best 0-60 time is an iterative process. We've been working with Jack Rickard to try to help him improve his times, but try to keep in mind that none of us are "racers", per se, and so not real qualified to help out much here. That said, if you look at how much time is spent at 100% duty cycle in the attached graph from one of J.R.'s runs it's pretty obvious that either a higher gear or more pack voltage is needed.

I'm not building a racer, I just really want it to feel like the TwinTurbo it use to be.

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icec0o1

· #10 · Feb 13, 2011

Nomad said:
I'm not building a racer, I just really want it to feel like the TwinTurbo it use to be.

You can install hydraulic actuators to tilt your seat backwards when you're accelerating. Other than that, your request is nonsensical. "I want to build a 90hp car that feels like a 300hp car". Calculate how much it'll cost you to build a 300hp electric car and see if you can afford it.

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nimblemotors

· #11 · Feb 13, 2011

Nomad, I love the 90's 300ZX, they are sweet cars, tried to buy a couple but the deals always fell through (because I'm always low-balling..

The RWD is great for a direct-drive setup, ditch the trans and engine, leaves you all the front area for batteries, where the heavy engine used to be, so easy to get to and right weight distribution.

The big difference between an EV and a Twin Turbo is the gas car will keep pulling and pulling, particularly when you shift, it kicks, whereas the EV will jump off the line, but then go flat.

The 11' HV looks to be quite a motor, but it is very heavy.
How are you for doing fabrication? Or is this a off-the-shelf project?

Nomad said:
I'm not building a racer, I just really want it to feel like the TwinTurbo it use to be.

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drivin98

· #12 · Feb 15, 2011

rwaudio said:
...My design uses a Soliton1 with the Warp11HV and a 307v nominal pack of headway cells (80AH)
Peak battery current is just over 1000A but will sag to about 260V
....

That's sounds like the kind of voltage sag one might experience with mediocre lead acid batteries instead of lithium. Could someone with Headway experience comment?

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rwaudio

· #13 · Feb 16, 2011

drivin98 said:
That's sounds like the kind of voltage sag one might experience with mediocre lead acid batteries instead of lithium. Could someone with Headway experience comment?

Just remember that is at 12.5C, at 3-4C like most cells are used there isn't very much sag.

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300ZX Finally Got the Time and the Money.

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