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4680 Tesla Battery Application

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Here's a photo of one of the first applications of the new Tesla 4680 structural battery:

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For comparison, behind the cut away mock-up is a mock-up of the old 2170 cell design.

This is from the Berlin Gigafactory public tour. It looks like the battery box completely replaces the floor and is bolted into the cast and sheet metal body. Corrugated cooling channels appear to be placed between every other row of cells. Not shown are the buss bars and the bonding between the top cover/ floor and the top of the cells. There's a lot of DIY potential here, with the right vehicle, with the bolt-in design and structural member aspect of the battery box.
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More Musk bullshit.

I was under the impression the cells were dropped into cavities in the gigacasting. These are still bolt-in batteries.

There's nothing structural about it, as compared to what they now use. I could probably drive the tractor over a Model S battery & not hurt it. Yes, they corrugated the top - BFD.

Thanks for the lookie
 

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Mighty huge structural rocker panels, and B pillars coupling floor loads to the roof, on that spacecraft.

The car is going in the wring direction of repairability. That has been Tesla's achilles heel...a bunch of kids with no adult supervision. Who in the heck but Tesla puts door and hatch hinge bolts, used to adjust gaps, behind glued-in glass?
 

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Yes, seat mounts - that's where most of passenger weight transfers to vehicle structure. You's think that aerospace honeycomb could handle it and that all that's needed is a corrugation to accomodate seat rail mounting screw length.

The battery likely handles its own structural weight, which a Tesla module does as well, but NFW does it add anything to the chassis for structural strength.
 

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I guess we'll find out the first time somebody removes the battery box. I suspect a vehicle with this very strong and stiff honeycomb design battery box removed, will be a very weak and flexible structure indeed.
You're being a bit overdramatic on your honeycombs.

Look at those rocker panels and the B pillar. They're comparable to any unibody. The car has to support itself on a lift when battery packs get R&R'd, and that includes dropping tye car to clear for other cars until a replacement pack shows up. It has to roll, it has to ride on a rollback without folding up.

To get the battery out, the seats and carpet have to drop with it. Ick.

The battery is self supporting, it takes seat loads to the rocker panels, and nothing more is required of it structurally.

Unlike the module-based batteries, however, if one of these cells lights off, the whole pack will incinerate itself.

And if you have a bad cell, the entire pack gets changed out. vs a module.

It's too much gee whiz brainstorming, without any repairability. This is where Tesla will have its lunch eaten.
 

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I have three Teslas in the yard, and about 50 years f*cking around with building cars...started my first hotrod at 13. Worked for GM for three years. EE from a country where you do engineering for three years, then the EE stuff at the end and 35 hours a week was in class or labs....not this candy-ass 15 hours a week American crap.

Yeah...random.

Teslas are not designed for repairability. They didn't even put a seam in the rear quarter panel to be able to simply repair common fender benders.

To align the rear hatch or Falcon Wing doors, a 20 sec procedure on every other car on the planet, you have to remove the GLASS that's glued in.

The cars are easily totaled (which is good for salvage vultures like those of us here) because they are not designed for repair.

Another example...upper control arm replacement on the back of the X...the factory puts the pivot bolt in backwards, so you have to drop the DU to do a simple A arm change. Or cut the bolt off in tight quarters, risking a structural casting nick.

Bunch of unsupervised kids who get gold stars for doing stupid shit. No PR, no marketing, no repairability engineers with design veto powers like a normal car company has.

Yeah

Random
 

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The original scuttlebutt on the structural battery was that it was a gigacasting.

Mounting seats and a console on top of a battery pack is meh, despite Musk's hype.

I'll wait until they crack it open before I judge it as "revolutionary" or not.
 

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Metal pack top and bottom can't be bonded to the cells or it'll be a 1s800p pack 😂 It has to be bonded to the honeycomb holding the cells.

Which begs the question of how the electrical connections are made and isolated and how they isolate the cells thermally, and how they cool them.

I'm interested in the pack guts, not seats and consoles which saves one or two robot ingress/egress cycles with an assembly.

Musk keeps INCREASING the price on his $35k car, and the $25k car is nowhere to be seen - I think someone stepped in some bovine excrement somewhere and now they're paying for "being German" (engineering things too complicated).

So.... grabbing 🍿🥤 for Friday.

ps Munro knows the Tesla fanboys are frothing at the mouth for this "advanced tech" cell, and a purchase order is a purchase order for the big dogs, so, yeah...$800 for a helluva vape pen battery.
 

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I'm waiting to see what they did.

Having three Teslas here, I know how idiotic they are for serviceability & repair (who pulls glued in glass out to get at the door/hatch hinge bolts to adjust panel gaps, but Tesla?).

With no apparent adult supervision on Model S and Model X that I've seen, it means it's open season on approach, which I'm looking forward to seeing.

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Of course, nobody's modules are exactly serviceable at the cell level, so maybe I'm being a bit harsh at them killing modules altogether to where the pack vs a module has to be changed out if there's a cell fault.

Burn out, eh? Something tells me I need to be hurt and take that seriously.
 

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Still waiting for that dry chemistry-set they bought from Maxwell.

Musk is all about his stock options...no more, "go ahead and use my company's patents", lol.

Two years ago you were a fool for not buying a Tesla -- becuz autopilot can enable your Tesla to give paying taxi rides to hookers and vomiting college kids while you sleep. 😂

Grabbing a 🍿🥤 and watching the BS & truth unfold.

"structural battery" so far = "moar goo"...a cell repurposing disaster from the former Mr Green Mobility. If he wasn't in the battery selling business for Panasonic, he'd apply glue to the gigacasting honeycomb, only...
 

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Looking at the latest Munro video where they pull the cell apart,


there is no way they can go to a pouch cell or a smaller diameter one - the dry coating has a large bend radius, which I think is the main reason for all the tabs....it's NOT thermal, as Elon has BS'd, but electrical continuity because of the dry coating cracking during rolling it up to put into the casing.

He tried making his own batteries, but Panasonic is now riding over the hill in a white hat to make this poopshow manufacturable.

Funny how the structural battery cheerleaders have gone silent. Damaging the gigacastings totals the car, cells are not easily extracted - that means insurance rates are going to get jacked up. Tesla anticipated this, and is offering its own insurance.

It's a cost reduction that lines Elon's pockets - if they can get it to yield functional cells, but could be darned expensive for owners of these abominations.
 

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the worst part about these non-serviceable designs is it gives all the FUD people tons of ammo to attack EVs with

on other cars, you replace one module after then ten year mark or something, maybe more like 15, and the pack is fine
I'll add to what Brian said, which is pretty much what I would have posted.

Much of the luddite lore out there is based on the iPhone battery experience of it lasting two or three years. These very same people keep buying iPhones, by the way...

Tesla Model S has been on the road for a decade and almost all of them are still running high SoC (in the low 90%'s, iirc). I don't see pack replacement for 15-20 years in cars with thermally equalized and thermally conditioned cells that have not been thermally overstressed with high current charge/discharge.

No, you won't have "one cell go bad and replace it to extend the pack life". They should all go down together. Brian already covered the new cell among aged cells...it will not increase its contribution to the gang beyond what the worst of the gang (in theory each and each one) can do.

So servicing a pack is not a priority - Tesla seems to hate the secondary market (us here, solar, grid storage), and appears to want cells scrapped.

tesla will happily sell you a whole new pack for $20k
"see??? you have to replace the whole pack every 10 years for 20k!!!" - fud people, probably
And you will happily buy it, unless you got the f*cked up structural battery. Why?

Because everybody on this forum is HAPPY to pay $10,000 for an 80% SoC Tesla battery pack. Solar people are tickled. Grid guys...a bit grumpy.

Ten years later, DIYEC guy and Solar guy want more than 60% SoC, so Grid guy snaps those up for $6k.

EVERYBODY is happy. Except F-250 guy, because everything EV is spoken for and he's paying $12/gallon for Diesel, and $100/gallon for the bottled pee he adds for emissions.

Now, let's remember that EV batteries will need to be replaced in 2037, not now...a time when lithium mines are just starting up, and when execs are poking ceremonial holes in the ground with shovels for new battery plants.

Battery cost will come down, substantially, just like solar did. It'll take a bit longer, but by 2037, your $13,500 66kWh Bolt EV pack may be $9k. Now push that down the food chain I described. A Bolt EV battery, if it continued production (which it won't) will be $10k, a salvage will be $8k, an 80% will be $6k, a grid will be $3k, and the recycler will pay $1000.

So, no. A replacement EV battery is not $20k out of pocket. More like $2k for the Bolt, maybe $4k.

This is where I think Tesla is really f*cking up in the long term. All Structural Battery Tesla guys can do (assuming DIY can't figure out how to extract the cells, intact) is get laughed out of town when they bring their 80% car in for recycling...can't repurpose the battery, and the recycler is buying battery packs for $1000, not $8000, or $6000.

An engine is $5k...a diesel engine is $18k, as is a 650HP vette engine with a supercharger...our motors stay in the car, yet the replacement battery can power a dual motor car with 650HP.

All's good - stay off Facebook unless you're fully prepared to pee in the FUDders' koolaide. The Cult is all about creating belief in nonsense, and it sounds like you started believing some of it....don't feel too bad - the talk g points are dropped into social media by think tanks...fossil fuels have a lot to lose, but the oil industry doesn't care.
 
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