[danmansuttmeier]

Hey guys I am a electrical engineering student at the University of Hartford. We have started a new group for converting the truck in the title to an electric vehicle. It is a 4cyl regular cab short bed 5spd manual. The school is funding the cash and we are trying to build this truck to go as fast in the 1/4 mile and as far as possible. We are pricing out parts and I just wanted to know what you guys thought about my idea so far.

We wanted to get an Net Gain WarP11HV because from what I have read that is the best motor for speed. To power it I was thinking of using 12 Odyssey PC2250ST. These batteries are rated at 114ah @ 10 hours. Which means they are 1140ah for 1 hour right? Which is AWESOME. So the 12 batteries giving 144V to the motor with tons of Amps. For the controller I was thinking of using the Soliton1 DC controller because I believe it is the only one that can handle the amps.

So pinning this truck in first I would hope she will get up and go. Let me know any thought comments better ideas whatever. We just want speed and distance.

 

[dtbaker]

...we are trying to build this truck to go as fast in the 1/4 mile and as far as possible.

mutually exclusive goals

We wanted to get an Net Gain WarP11HV because from what I have read that is the best motor for speed. To power it I was thinking of using 12 Odyssey PC2250ST.

as EEs I think you ought to explore custom winding a pair of 9" or something creative. In any case, lead is not going to be the best option for either drag strip or max distance.

 

[danmansuttmeier]

Well yes i understand fast and far are 2 different things. When I say far I mean at least 50 miles. I think proving electric vehicles are fast is more important for what we are going for. And I figured for power deep cycle lead would be the best option. Can you make a suggestion to what battery we should use and how many?

 

[Ektus]

To power it I was thinking of using 12 Odyssey PC2250ST. These batteries are rated at 114ah @ 10 hours. Which means they are 1140ah for 1 hour right? Which is AWESOME. So the 12 batteries giving 144V to the motor with tons of Amps.

Wrong. Those batteries deliver the less energy the more power you need. 114Ah @ 10 hours says you will get 114A*12V=1,368VAh=1.368kWh out of them, if you take your time and discharge them with 11.4A over a time of 10 hours. If you need more power than 144V*11.4A=1,641VA=1.64kW you'll get less energy. The batteries can deliver more amps, but voltage will be lower due to internal resistance.

Read up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert's_law as a starting point.

With best regards
Ektus.

 

[idarusskie]

You want to checkout places like this.

https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/se...rentid=25&mode=2&in_hi_userid=200&cached=true

They have published data on their different experiments. They have experience with ultracapacitors. Since you are a university there may even be some DOE money or used caps that you can play with.
Let me know if you have trouble getting a contact number. I work at the lab under a different contractor.

 

[major]

Hey guys I am a electrical engineering student at the University of Hartford........These batteries are rated at 114ah @ 10 hours. Which means they are 1140ah for 1 hour right?

Wrong

Hi danman,

You had better crack a textbook there and learn about charge, rate, energy, units and Peukert's law. I don't have time for a lesson this morning.

Welcome to the forum,

major

 

[Yabert]

We wanted to get an Net Gain WarP11HV because from what I have read that is the best motor for speed.

Please don't use a Warp 11 HV at such low voltage (144v). This Warp high voltage is design to run at 288v!

If you need to do a 144v or 156v conversion, please use a Warp 11 or similar motor.

 

[dtbaker]

Well yes i understand fast and far are 2 different things. When I say far I mean at least 50 miles. I think proving electric vehicles are fast is more important for what we are going for. And I figured for power deep cycle lead would be the best option. Can you make a suggestion to what battery we should use and how many?

you need to do a lot more reading.... people here love to help but not spoonfeed. Lead is NOT to best way to go any more, and there are various formats of lithium allowing very high discharge rates, higher than the large format Thundersky or CALB; the higher rates are generally more expensive.

 

[danmansuttmeier]

Hey Guys I never knew Peukerts Law was that drastic sorry about being a noob. I know lead is not the way to go but my problem with these Lithium Polymer batteries is they are only 3V it takes me 96 batteries to get to 288V for the Warp11HV. And 96 batteries costs $22,656 without shipping and weighs 1523lbs which is a lot of weight for a small pickup. Any1 have a batter option for batteries?

http://www.evequipmentsupply.com/page52.html

 

[DavidDymaxion]

That sounds like a great project!

NEDRA has a 144V class, you could run in that.

The cells in the link have good energy but not great power. If you want a racer you'd want smaller cells like A123 (expensive) or Headways. The Headways can actually be cheaper if you give up range.

Google on +"Dennis Berube" (Chevy S10) and +"Black Current" +electric +VW" (VW Bug) to see drag racers going fast on lead acid.

Hey Guys I never knew Peukerts Law was that drastic sorry about being a noob. I know lead is not the way to go but my problem with these Lithium Polymer batteries is they are only 3V it takes me 96 batteries to get to 288V for the Warp11HV. And 96 batteries costs $22,656 without shipping and weighs 1523lbs which is a lot of weight for a small pickup. Any1 have a batter option for batteries?

http://www.evequipmentsupply.com/page52.html

 

[major]

....these Lithium Polymer batteries is they are only 3V it takes me 96 batteries to get to 288V for the Warp11HV. And 96 batteries.....

Hey danman,

First.....the link is not for Lithium Polymer, it is LiFePO.

Second.....Depending on the Lithium chemistry, cell voltage is 3.2 to 3.7 V/c. Pb-Acid is 2 V/c. So it takes less Lithium cells in a series string to get your desired battery pack voltage than with Pb-Acid cells.

Third....Lithium cells come in all different sizes. For equivalent energy and /or power, the lithium battery pack will weigh on the order of 30 to 50% of the Pb-Acid.

Forth...learn the difference between a cell and a battery

major

 

[danmansuttmeier]

The cells in the link have good energy but not great power. If you want a racer you'd want smaller cells like A123 (expensive) or Headways. The Headways can actually be cheaper if you give up range.

I looked up Headways and the ones i found were 3.2V and 10AH. So the energy seems low to me but the minimum order quantity is 500 of these things. So if I had 500 of them and split them into 4 sets of 125 each. 125 of them in series gives me 400V. Couldnt I then take the 4 sets at 400V and wire them in parallel to boost the energy of them together and have the 400V for the Warp11HV? Or is that not enough energy? I read Dennis Berube's S10 is running at 400V using a 13inch GE motor. Would the Warp13 be better? The ratings don't look better than the Warp11. I wonder what batteries hes using.

 

[dtbaker]

Google on +"Dennis Berube" (Chevy S10) and +"Black Current" +electric +VW" (VW Bug) to see drag racers going fast on lead acid.

you can go pretty fast on lead, like the original white zombie, but look how much faster he's going now on lithium!

 

[rwaudio]

I looked up Headways and the ones i found were 3.2V and 10AH. So the energy seems low to me but the minimum order quantity is 500 of these things. So if I had 500 of them and split them into 4 sets of 125 each. 125 of them in series gives me 400V. Couldnt I then take the 4 sets at 400V and wire them in parallel to boost the energy of them together and have the 400V for the Warp11HV? Or is that not enough energy? I read Dennis Berube's S10 is running at 400V using a 13inch GE motor. Would the Warp13 be better? The ratings don't look better than the Warp11. I wonder what batteries hes using.

Although my conversion isn't a race car I'm using most of the parts you are talking about. (Warp11HV, Soliton1, Headway 10ah cells) I've done the research, you are welcome to skip to the conclusions I came to on my blog, but you will miss out on some of the "WHY" but for the most part I describe my decisions.
http://electricporsche.ca

Good luck with the project!

(one thing you might want to look at for drag racing is a higher current controller. I love the Soliton1 and I bought one, but if I was going to build a car specifically to drag race I would look at the Zilla 2K -hv or -ehv, or even possibly the warp drive controller, the 360v 1400A version that is... but just remember the real power comes from the batteries!)

 

[nimblemotors]

well for a university drag race project, who cares how far it goes, truck will likely be dismantled when project is over, I'd just use car starting batteries, cheap and can dump gobs of power, 1000's of amps for 10 seconds. will kill them in short order, but so what, you'll get some good press coverage and impress your friend, then graduate.
Unless you have a big budget, then use A123 cells and some ultracaps.

Hey guys I am a electrical engineering student at the University of Hartford. We have started a new group for converting the truck in the title to an electric vehicle. It is a 4cyl regular cab short bed 5spd manual. The school is funding the cash and we are trying to build this truck to go as fast in the 1/4 mile and as far as possible. We are pricing out parts and I just wanted to know what you guys thought about my idea so far.

We wanted to get an Net Gain WarP11HV because from what I have read that is the best motor for speed. To power it I was thinking of using 12 Odyssey PC2250ST. These batteries are rated at 114ah @ 10 hours. Which means they are 1140ah for 1 hour right? Which is AWESOME. So the 12 batteries giving 144V to the motor with tons of Amps. For the controller I was thinking of using the Soliton1 DC controller because I believe it is the only one that can handle the amps.

So pinning this truck in first I would hope she will get up and go. Let me know any thought comments better ideas whatever. We just want speed and distance.

 

[danmansuttmeier]

well for a university drag race project, who cares how far it goes, truck will likely be dismantled when project is over, I'd just use car starting batteries, cheap and can dump gobs of power, 1000's of amps for 10 seconds. will kill them in short order, but so what, you'll get some good press coverage and impress your friend, then graduate.
Unless you have a big budget, then use A123 cells and some ultracaps.

I could do that it depends on how much cash we get. Professor says he will guarantee $100k but i think he is full of it. I estimate around $30,000 so I was thinking using 96 LifePO4's that are 3.2V 160AH. They can put out 1000amps for a little while which i guess is good enough. And 96 of them at 3V is 288V which is what the Warp11HV requires and a zilla z2k controller. If we get more money I will think about going after White Zombie. Can you guys think of anything better for parts? To me this seems solid but what do I know.

 

[EVfun]

To learn more about fast EVs I would recommend going through the EVs in the EV album that sport a Zilla controller. Not all of them are hot rods, but right now some of the fastest EVs out there are using the Z2k series Zilla controllers. You can be plenty fast with a Soliton 1000 amp controller, but you will need to use high voltage. 80 LiFePO4 cells that can dish out 1000 amps combined with a Soliton 1 will get you about 250 horsepower to work with.

 

[danmansuttmeier]

To learn more about fast EVs I would recommend going through the EVs in the EV album that sport a Zilla controller. Not all of them are hot rods, but right now some of the fastest EVs out there are using the Z2k series Zilla controllers. You can be plenty fast with a Soliton 1000 amp controller, but you will need to use high voltage. 80 LiFePO4 cells that can dish out 1000 amps combined with a Soliton 1 will get you about 250 horsepower to work with.

I want to use a zilla z2k but i cant find one they are out of production. And when you say 80 LifePO4 with 1000amps cells do mean 1000amps continuous? Because the ones i want to order are able to put out intermittent 1000A-1600A. And I want to order 96 of them.

 

[EVfun]

do mean 1000amps continuous?

Oh no, that would be one serious pack! 1000 amps for 10 seconds should be plenty to go fast.

When it comes to how many to use I would find out what the limit is for the Soliton controller and shoot at or a little under it.

 

[danmansuttmeier]

Oh no, that would be one serious pack! 1000 amps for 10 seconds should be plenty to go fast.

When it comes to how many to use I would find out what the limit is for the Soliton controller and shoot at or a little under it.

According to the specs of these cells the peak current is 1000amps for 15 seconds and 1600amps for 5 seconds. So that is enough for 1000amps in the 1/4 mile at 288V and the Warp11HV. Im thinking this will be fast. Hope the soliton can handle it you think I will have a problem? It says it can handle 1000amps continuous.