[fugdabug]

Here we sit in a time when the economy is sucking wind, DC motor controller suppliers are either so overrun that they can't keep up or are unscrupulous in their dealings and all those that have the ability to build are sitting around with their thumbs up a hole where the sun doesn't shine!!!..
My Challenge is this:

SOMEBODY ANYBODY, publish to this site an OPEN SOURCE design for a controller that could be home-built and tested capable of a range from 72VDC to 168VDC. And the design must use readily available parts from standard electronics suppliers/parts suppliers. And it must be complete in its schematics, not requiring flow-soldering mechanism - must be designed such that a person can create a board (or modify a board) to hand-build and solder the entire mechanism.

P.S. Controller IC must be readily obtainable and programmable by S232 interface in a language such as 'C'.

Now, I am 56 years old I don't have YEARS to year and YEARS to wait... SOMEBODY up to this?
And don't give me any 'economics of the matter' crap... Somebody put one out here and let everybody build one! (please)

fugdabug

 

[Technologic]

Now, I am 56 years old I don't have YEARS to year and YEARS to wait... SOMEBODY up to this?
And don't give me any 'economics of the matter' crap... Somebody put one out here and let everybody build one! (please)

fugdabug

I'm working on one... that I will release a schematic for if I ever get it to work.

I can't offer any sort of time frame... but it's constantly being worked on *sighs*

If I encounter issues in the spring with it... I'll be hiring an EE from my college (Duke University) to trouble shoot it. Question I reckon anyone ponying money up for anything is, will they get their money back? Wish I could help in the short term mate. But my own project won't be put on hold for much longer.

Programmable controllers really aren't necessary... and once you start getting into that range you're looking at top end masters/doctorate EEs... not DIYers.

Just try to find a book on programmable controllers for engineers... there AREN'T any. I have several Nobel prize nominees in my BME and CE departments here, and I can not find much help/guidance outside of being told "you need to take engineering courses to understand", a luxury of time I don't have to waste (about programmable ones).

 

[fugdabug]

Just try to find a book on programmable controllers for engineers... there AREN'T any. I have several Nobel prize nominees in my BME and CE departments here, and I can not find much help/guidance outside of being told "you need to take engineering courses to understand", a luxury of time I don't have to waste (about programmable ones).

Ah yes,... Isn't it interesting:
We are at a point in our history when we really need open source references. I went online looking for references applicable to EV's and 'How-to' (this was in early April-May of this year), I found three books that were repeated over and over ... DIY elect. car - Brant, Convert It - Brown, and Motor and Controllers - Gottlieb. ALL three were from the early 1990's... I searched further and found books in the $160.00-$300+ range on Electric Vehicle Technologies... yeah right!... are you willing to buy a book full of words and that may have very little to do with the actual construction and tech in reality??? For me the answer was obvious ... buy all three and work from there. But the components, ah, that is another story eh?.. I know I came off rather flustered but I myself am trying to get back into 'study mode'. I am revising my basic understandings trying to get into the electronics I never studied in high school or college... I figure I may not be able to design but I can at least understand the basic component functions!... and the building part is a matter of following schematics and buying a proper 0-scope. I hope you do get your project done soon and proven! That is what we need more of YOU!!!.. I am going to approach some folks at the local community college that offers an engineering program, and see if I can't spur some sort of innovation in their class offerings in the way of EV tech.

 

[Technologic]

But the components, ah, that is another story eh?.. I know I came off rather flustered but I myself am trying to get back into 'study mode'.

http://www.amazon.com/Control-Elect...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227711337&sr=1-1

Is probably the best book I've come across for the design phase of a controller system. Yet I refuse to pay that much and can't find one used.

Most motor controller books are troubleshooting/repair guides and have nothing to do with a scratch design.

I'm still working on it.

 

[Bugzuki]

Are you looking for a DC Brushed motor controller? You did not put any spec for that. I have been doing some work on a BLDC/induction controller, but it is different then a straight DC controller.

I think that the main problem is is that the companies that are currently making controllers don't want to see an opensource systems, so the hold on to there information tight.

 

[david85]

I was wondering about the brushless DC or AC myself. Would be nice to have something a little better than the old series wound brushed motors.

 

[saab96]

I have been doing some work on a BLDC/induction controller, but it is different then a straight DC controller.

Is there such a thing as an affordable brushless DC motor for freeway-capable EVs? I've never seen such a thing.

 

[david85]

Is there such a thing as an affordable brushless DC motor for freeway-capable EVs? I've never seen such a thing.

What would you consider affordable?

 

[fugdabug]

NOPE. Talking the standard DC series wound motor... like my D&D Systems ES31B... straightforward and tunable for torque and power %. Nothing fancy not complicated by bells and whistles... something a wrench monkey could use to control his pot throttle to motor translation. A simple 'brain' between traction pack, pot and motor. You know 'simple'.
But enough to handle the rigors of 72 - 168VDC and say 500A.

 

[Technologic]

Is there such a thing as an affordable brushless DC motor for freeway-capable EVs? I've never seen such a thing.

Yeah there's quite a few, the problem is people are still using 2500-3000lb conversions, with Cds of .33-.5

I'd say there's a lot to gain from cutting weight (say by building a ground up tube frame car/fiberglass/kevlar reinforced) car than there is by throwing a larger motor and larger batt pack in a premade car.

"Purpose built" is the motto I intend to built my EV with (and any possible clones of it I build for people).

a 8kw brushless DC motor would run you about $900? at least if you source it from the real sources.

 

[david85]

Brushless motors are a lot like controllers for DC brushed motors. The raw parts are not very expensive ( a few $100 in material for something over 200kw), whats needed is some one to build such a drive system that isn't working for siemens, GE or some other big company.

Although anything would be better than what we have right now if it were reliable and affordable (brushless or not).

 

[Zanthic]

I have been lurking here for a while and thought maybe it was time to jump in!
I have 20 years embedded controller experience, 13+ years CAN bus, and recently did enough contract work for a hybrid electric vehicle battery company to get me interested in all things electric vehicle related. This list is a little out of date but it shows some of the projects I have been involved in www.zanthic.com/projects.htm
I have also been experimenting with the Linear 6802 BMS IC and have done some relatively low current motor drivers (under 40 amp). I would be willing to provide whatever resources I can to creating an open source system, both on the BMS side and the motor controller side. I also have an existing platform of microcontroller boards that allow the download and configuration of I/O devices all across the CAN bus . This might form the building blocks to a larger system if useful.
Steve

 

[Harold in CR]

Sounds like a winner to me. Zanthic, thank you for your most generous offer.
Just wish I knew electronics.

OK guys, lets see what can come of this. I even have an O-scope to donate to someone that KNOWS how to use it, if I can be allowed to be a part of this operation.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah there's quite a few, the problem is people are still using 2500-3000lb conversions, with Cds of .33-.5

I'd say there's a lot to gain from cutting weight (say by building a ground up tube frame car/fiberglass/kevlar reinforced) car than there is by throwing a larger motor and larger batt pack in a premade car.

Building a car from the ground up is about ten times the work of just doing a conversion, not to mention getting it certified for road use. Using existing vehicles is the only reasonable option for the majority of individuals. Certainly smaller and lighter ones are available, as well as dropping weight wherever possible.

 

[Technologic]

Building a car from the ground up is about ten times the work of just doing a conversion, not to mention getting it certified for road use. Using existing vehicles is the only reasonable option for the majority of individuals. Certainly smaller and lighter ones are available, as well as dropping weight wherever possible.

The question I always had, was spending upwards of $3000-10,000 more to convert a engineless steel car (depending if you go lithium or not) still will have a lot of the many moving parts that aren't necessary for an EV that weighs 700-800 lbs, seats 2 with a Cd in the 0.15 range. You could easily shed the transmisson, power steering, air compressor, 1/2 or more of the battery power, yet increasing the range by 2-3 times (120 miles off of 8kwh seems quite possible). Lower RPM motors, lower voltages, etc etc.

It's more difficult, at least the FIRST one would be, but you'd be in a much better long term situation. Not to mention you'd have the ability to clone the car in "days" (assuming you made the proper molds, jigs, etc).

 

[JRP3]

You could easily shed the transmisson, power steering, air compressor, 1/2 or more of the battery power, yet increasing the range by 2-3 times (120 miles off of 8kwh seems quite possible). Lower RPM motors, lower voltages, etc etc.

You could still do much of that if you picked the right vehicle. Remember full sized cars and trucks didn't always have power steering or power brakes and were quite drivable.

It's more difficult, at least the FIRST one would be, but you'd be in a much better long term situation. Not to mention you'd have the ability to clone the car in "days" (assuming you made the proper molds, jigs, etc).

Maybe a kit car would allow you to do almost the same without starting from nothing. A fiberglass bodied T-bucket would be light and simple and it would be pretty easy to make up an aero front end for it. There's a thread on one somewhere around here.

 

[Bugzuki]

Madmac is working on an AC induction/BLDC controller design. Last time I talked to him he was going to get some prototype board made up this fall. He is in England, so that made it a little hard for me to work with him, but if we could get him to let us help maybe we could get his design moving forward faster.

It is kind of a toss up if it is better to work on multiple designs or focus on one.

 

[LeTank]

DC / DC Controller patent
A search in google for DC/DC controllers patents is easy (I am being a smarty here. haha) and gives you a list of patents that relate to such, which you can then go by to build your own.
You can follow these links I will give below to find the patents, then goto www.pat2pdf.org and type in the patent number and you can download it as a pdf file.

Here is a patent for DC/DC controller on an Electric Motor in an Electric Vehicle.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4158158.html

Here is the patent with a multi-phase sync buck system for a controller on an electric vehicle.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6262566.html

Here is a link to the pat2pdf site where you can download the patent in pdf format.
http://www.pat2pdf.org/
Hope this helps.
Josh

When they refuse to give you any details on their products, I just go the source. The patent office is nice enough to give it all away to the public when companies refuse to. =)

 

[Qer]

Programmable controllers really aren't necessary... and once you start getting into that range you're looking at top end masters/doctorate EEs... not DIYers.

Uhm? You're saying you need a masters to program, for example, an AVR micro controller? Damn. I better stop immediately then before I accidentally blow up the world...

 

[Technologic]

Uhm? You're saying you need a masters to program, for example, an AVR micro controller? Damn. I better stop immediately then before I accidentally blow up the world...

Lol I was merely commenting on when that sort of thing is "taught" to students generally.