[Planky]

I am planing to keep the clutch in my VW Beetle. (Warp 9 Motor)
So i am looing for a CHEAP Adaptor and Coupler, any ideas where to get them?

Also i read that the alignment is the most important thing when connecting the motor. I also read that a rubber Star Spider in the Lovejoy coupler helps to have some more tolerance with the alignment.

Do i need (is it better?) this rubber Star Spider or i don´t need it because of the clutch?

With the Clutch still inside, can i reduce the mass of the Flywheel?
Anybody experience with reducing mass of the Flywheel?

Thanks for help and advice

Greets from Austria
Planky

 

[electric85]

what year is the beetle? there are companies that make and sell adapters and couplers...you can get both made at a machine shop...but i have also heard of people having alignment problems with adapter plates and couplers sliding or moving...something i plan on putting in the car only once i want to make sure its done right...i ordered mine from www.canev.com and there are others too

 

[Planky]

i didn´t buy it yet, but i am planing to get one from the 70s.
Is there no way to get something like that for 500$ or so?

The alignment is my actual question.
With your adapter and coupler (tolerances) would it be better to have something like the Stare Spider to be sure or is it overkill? (http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/images/parametricImages/Lovejoy_LType_coupling.jpg)

Is this Adapter strong enough to hold the motor with no other mountings?
It doesn´t look like aluminum, do you have any concerns regarding weight?
Have you experience with the modification of the Flywheel?

today is question day!!! Thanks

 

[gottdi]

i didn´t buy it yet, but i am planing to get one from the 70s.

Do you have photos of what your thinking of buying? Does it look like this?

 

[electric85]

yes the adapter is strong enough to hold the motor...but i wouldn't want it holding and being bounced around in the engine bay...you can get motor mount straps...a ring that goes around the motor and can mount to something...or some people custom make a mount that will attach to the opposite end of the motor and mount somewhere in the engine bay...as for the coupler...i have never seen one like that...it looks like metal with a blue plastic thing...

try going on www.evalbum.com search by make and see if you can contact any beetle owners and find out what their set up is, how its working, what they used and where they got it from...and also search by location, see if you can find someone near you...there may be a machine shop that is near by that has done this type of stuff for another EV'er

 

[Planky]

hey gottid, what a coincidence i was just watching the videos on your (is it yours?) onegreenev.blogspot after reading in the thread "wabbling flywheel/coupler" your comment about your Pro Street VW Transaxle setup.

No i don´t have any pics.

i am just a kind of nerves in the decision making of what coupler and Adapter plate to buy, because i read so much people have problems with that.

As i have seen you are a man with lot of experience, what would be your recommendation for my case? (VW Beetle, WarP9)

Thanks for participate in my "Problem"

greets from Austria
Planky

 

[Planky]

hey electric85,
thanks for your input. i just decided that i don´t save with money on the adapter plate and coupler as it is a very critical and important part.

Sadly there is no EV community in Austria so i have to import the most things (+30% Tax) i will look out for some advise and machine shop.

regards
Planky

 

[gottdi]

Lets see. Yes, I am Gottdi and Onegreenev. I have more videos on youtube if you search both names. I am only putting new videos up on onegreenev but all my old ones on gottdi. I built my first conversion using a 64 VW Ghia and used a GE 9" motor/adaptor from an original Bradley GT EV. It was their second generation model and the EV model was only available as a completed conversion. The motor is a real nice GE motor with the end plate as the adaptor for the VW. It uses the stock flywheel and pressure plate. I do have a lightened gearless flywheel. Since the system was 96 volts in the end it is a good idea to keep the clutch because you will be shifting. It was heavy because it was a lead acid built. Minimal mileage but it was fast. Batteries did not last long and I have since converted to lithium. I did a 77 MG Midget too that had a Warp9 Impulse motor and that was a nice motor. It does have advanced brushes for higher voltages. For low voltage systems it is not the best because of the advanced brushes. But for higher voltages it is just fine. If you use a Warp motor in an Old Bug you will be cutting some on the apron. Some also remove the rear apron to make it easier to install the motor and then just bolt it back in place. It is a common practice among those that retain the engine too. So not to worry about doing that trick. It really helps. The GE motor does not have an internal fan and does not have an extra shaft. It just fits the Ghia and Bug, Just. It needs an external fan to cool the motor. I also have two older style Kostov 11" motors. Those are short without the fan and long with. If you plum for an external blower to cool the motor I believe the motor will fit in a Bug. I plan on using my Rebirth Auto adaptor with my Kostov for my VW Bus and I am going to try to fit it in my Bug Roadster we are currently working on putting together.

The motor I showed in my videos is good for the fiberglass buggies and coupled to a modified Kelly controller will allow full PWM control as well as regen. The motors do get hot under stiff loads and need a good blower to keep it cool. For a steel bodied but I'd go with a 9" motor but some use the older ADC 8" motors that do fit. There are good adaptor available and better adaptors. Most will hold the motor used for the VW with no trouble. Use if you can Grade 8 bolts to give extra holding strength. I try to find good used parts and they are available if you look and most of all Plan your Build according to your needs and budget. Don't jump on every deal that comes along. Many are not as good as you might think. Some are excellent. I have made bad purchases. I have made some excellent ones too. We are completely replacing the front disc brakes system on the Roadster so expect some expense from restoring your ride. Even mild restorations are expensive. Count it all in your budget.

Plan.
Plan.
Plan.
And Plan some more.

Pete

 

[Planky]

Thanks pete,

my (second) last question is what´s your opinion using the Kostov 9 instead of the Warp 9? (144V, calb 180Ah)
Or as you wrote you would use an Kostov 11 instead?

Kostov would be good for me as i don´t have to import to the EU (no tax).

thanks
Planky

PS: maybe i am worrying too much

 

[EVfun]

Is this Adapter strong enough to hold the motor with no other mountings? It doesn´t look like aluminum, do you have any concerns regarding weight? Have you experience with the modification of the Flywheel?

This is how much support the motor needs in a VW Beetle. The old air cooled Bug is designed to support the motor and transaxle entirely with the 3 transaxles mounts. The aluminum on my adapter is about 1/2 inch thick at the flange. The adapter started out as a 3/4 inch thick, 12-1/2 inch diameter 6061 aluminum plate. I can't really help on the clutch as I went with a clutchless adapter using a Ruland CLC-18-18F and the splines from a VW Bus input to mainshaft coupler.

This is a pretty common adapter for VW conversions. There are other good options out there too. An off the shelf new adapter is a bit more than you want to spend. For a budget price it is likely best to find a good used adapter, possibly with motor attached. The air cooled VW is a common conversion so it should be very possible to find one with a little looking and patience.

 

[ga2500ev]

Just a quick comment on the LoveJoy coupler with the spider...

It won't last. If you check out Ben Nelson and M Paul Holmes over at ecomodder, you'll see that both started with LoveJoys and both failed.

It works as a temporary. I'm testing with one. But I fully expect it to fail fairly quickly.

Most folks end up with a solid shaft coupler with a keyed bore. They then remove the center of the clutch disk, mark a keyhole in that center, insert it into the bore with a key, then weld the whole system solid. There are several examples floating around.

One last item. I don't have a VW. But in my readings it was pointed out that the input shaft for the VW transmission does not self align in any way and has up to a half inch of freedom of movement. This is very bad because it still needs to be properly aligned to ensure that input bearings do not wear. Just another item to be very careful with.

I'm working on my adapter plate design now. I plan to use the two plate adapter with spacers using half inch (12 mm) 6061 aluminum plates and one inch (25 mm) diameter round aluminum spacers. For a good guide on how to put these together take a look at this Wikibook chapter that shows a 3 plate adapter, but gets the idea across. MPaulHomes has quite a bit of detail in his VW build thread on EcoModder.com and JackBauer has several posts describing his adapter plate construction in this BMW thread here.

Hope this helps...

ga2500ev

 

[Planky]

Thanks ga2500ev, very useful info.
After all this help i am feeling confident that everything works out.

Thanks
Planky

 

[gottdi]

I'd say a Kostov 9" would be fine. They are good motors but not the same as the Warp. The adaptor that was shown is a fine adaptor for the VW. I chose a different one and one designed to fit my motor for only a $100 more.

If you can find an abandoned VW EV project you might just score on parts and maybe a good VW to finish and spend far less than starting from the bottom.

If you get a Kostov you need to be sure your adaptor fits the mounting holes for the motor.

 

[EVfun]

ga2500ev is right about the lovejoy coupler. They have quite the reputation for chewing up the spider. Stop and go traffic is really rough duty.

The VW Beetle transaxle is a strange beast with no bearing on the input shaft other than the pilot bearing (except 1960 and older transaxles.) The other end is fitted into a splined coupler above the differential (that coupler is also reverse gear.) I cut the pilot shaft off my input shaft to make the adapter shorter and haven't had any problems with a floating input shaft for over a decade. That is only an option for a clutchless adapter. If you go clutchless I can't recommend not welding the clutch disc spline to the hub, some have had luck with that and others have had spline failures. I suspect that if the splines get too hot the hardening is destroyed. For clutchless, I would recommend a coupler that looks like the one in the lower right of this page.

One thing to watch with your motor and adapter choice is what will fit. Many people have had to cut the rear apron to get their choice of motor installed. From what I understand the NetGain Impulse 9 motor will fit with an adapter that retains the clutch. The Advanced DC 8 inch motor will most likely fit with a clutchless adapter. With a little cutting of the rear apron almost any common motor will fit (either with or without a clutch.)