[24Seven]

Hi,

This is my first post on this forum so please be gentle.

This seems like an awesome forum with alot of knowlege!

I have a small Sports car (Fiat Coupé 20v Turbo) that has been sitting in my garage for a couple of years. It runs, but not 100% and I have been planning an engine rebuild. The body and interior is in excellent shape for a 19 year old car.

The car is about 1300kg/2850lbs (curb weight) and has 260hp from an inline 5 cyl 2.0 litre turbo Engine and FWD.

After building two electric bikes from scratch (one with 1,6KW and one with 6KW), I´m leaning towards converting my car instead of rebuilding the ICE.

I have been researching what parts I need to convert the car to fully Electric but have a hard time understanding what motor/voltage/amp would suite my project. I´m looking for simular performance or atleast somewhat close to simular performance as with the ICE.

Looking at Warp 9, 11 and simular, (keeping the gearbox and clutch) but I´m not really shure they will make enough power. The engine compartment is pretty tight and I don´t think I have space for dual motors.

I have not really thought about batteries and controller yet, but a range of 50+ miles would be nice.

As always the budget is limited and if the performance goals drive the price up to much I might have to lower them or keep the ICE.

I was hoping to get some suggestions on what setup that reliably can provide 150kw+ peak.

Thanks!

 

[24Seven]

Thank's Kevin!

That was just the kind of answer I was looking for

With a hacked Inverter this would (almost) drop staight in and solve alot of issues with gearbox and clutch mating to a motor.

I guess the only downside is that batteries will be expensive at 250V+ but that might be the price you have to pay for simplicity.

I live in Sweden and unfortunately the is not really a plenthora of used Tesla parts available here, but there is always Ebay I guess... Is there any other good reputable source selling Tesla parts?

With this simple drivetrain I might even consider converting to RWD at the same time

 

[24Seven]

If you're looking for performance you'll need to invest in some decent batteries... Leaf modules are pretty cheap but probably don't have the performance you need... Volt modules might be a better fit... What's your budget?

Thank's again Kevin, I will look more into Leaf and Volt modules, but I´m shure youre right about the lower performance of Leaf batteries

The initial budget is always about a third of what the build is ending up costing I was hoping to be able to do the conversion for about 15000 Euro. This does not include AC, Heater etc. just to get the car running.

Here is a good place to start

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[24Seven]

Hello
I am selling the older technic Netgain dc Controller on eBay.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Netgain-1400-ampere-360v-Controller/152794114854

The Tesla drivetrain is Not so easy to install, i think.

In an other selling on eBay i have a new Netgain warp11 Motor.
But Not with shipping.

I am from Germany, and the TÜV whant no Motors without CE Plate.
Bad fore me.

Greetings Boxster-Warp

Hi Boxter Warp,

Thank's for bringing up CE-approval, I'll have to check with the Swedish equivalent of TÜV, that might actually be a problem here as well.

I also want to do a bit more reseach on OEM drive units from Tesla and Leaf before i buy any parts, thank's anyway!

Regards
Martin

 

[24Seven]

It would be a lot easier and perhaps cheaper to scrap the Fiat Coupé (assuming that you mean the 1990's Type 175) and start with something that has rear wheel drive... although the Coupé does have an interesting style.

Hi Brian,

You are absolutely right, would be MUCH easier to start with an e36 or simular. Unfortunately I am one of the few that really love the Chris Bangle/Pininfarina design of the Coupé, and have a real weakness for Italian cars. I have actually been playing with the idea of RWD-converting my Coupé with the ICE motor before, but this might be "Stage 2" of a conversion.

 

[24Seven]

If you do need a CE certificated drivetrain then afaik New Electric are the only company that have invested in the testing of Siemens and HPEVS in Europe.

Going forward a number of people have expressed an interest in testing and certifying the Tesla components for use in countries that require it.

That is interesting, I just assumed that (almost) all modern technology was CE-certified.

I built a Super Seven replica about ten years ago and then there were no rules (in Sweden) that stated parts had to be CE-approved. An electric converison follows the same approval process as my Super Seven, so I hope that this will not be an issue. I will be shure to double check this before getting to deep into the build though.

 

[24Seven]

New rules were introduced across Europe in the last couple of years... some countries decided to implement more stringent requirements including EMC certification (The Netherlands). Here's a thread that discusses some of the issues;

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/uk-iva-october-2016-update-now-177961.html

I would suggest trying to find someone in Sweden who has registered an electric conversion recently

I have emailed an inspector from SFRO, which is the organisation that inspects and approves home built or modified vehicles in Sweden. Should be interesting to hear what he has to say.

 

[24Seven]

If you don't need your electronics to be "approved" then a DC setup is much much cheaper and can be more powerful

This is my "Device"

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...dubious-device-44370p15.html?highlight=duncan

Hi Duncan,

I bet your home grown Seven is super quick of the line. If I could do my Super Seven build again it would definitly have an electric motor.

Without really knowing what conversion parts are availiable or what's possible, The initial plan was roughly:

• No need for gears
• Regen Braking
• 150-200kw Power
• 50 miles+ range
• Like any other EV to drive (Wife-proof)

Allthough compromises are inevitable with a limited budget.

I now know that regen is a no go and gears are hard to avoid with most DC-motors. If there is a good DC alternative where price/power/availability/weight is better than an AC setup I'd be willing to compromise.

From my short research the biggest cost by far seems be the batteries on both AC and DC setups. A new Warp 11 motor costs roughly the same as a used Tesla front drive unit, which includes an inverter and diff.

 

[24Seven]

Hello
My used Netgain Controller and my new warp11 on eBay cost 3900€, without shipping.
Controller shipping is ok but Motor Not.
I paid fore Both 5700€

Tesla Drive Unit Are a good Choice too.
Here in Germany cost a Tesla drivetrain 5000-7000€ without new Axels.

The Most conversions in Germany was with Curtis Controllern.(with low power).
But One Factory whant sell in Summer the scottdrive Controller with an TÜV Option.
The Controller cost alone 6000€, many Money.
It is Not easy to Build an ev conversion in Germany
Greetings Boxster-Warp.

Sorry for the late answer, been down with the flu and a nasty cough.

Yeah, shipping and customs/tax really add alot to the price.

If going with the Tesla drive train I would much rather buy it from somewhere in EU to minimize shipping and avoid customs. However, I´m affraid it will be hard to find parts as cheap here. Found this on Ebay, not within EU though.

I really hope we don´t have as strict rules here as you do in germany, still waiting for reply from the Swedish Car inspectors.

 

[24Seven]

Hi 24seven

My motor cost me $100NZ
The controller was about $800NZ
Batteries $3300NZ all up (Volt pack)

No gearbox
1200 amps and 340 v

I built it a bit too heavy - 805 Kg - 900 kg with me in it

55% of the weight on the rear wheels, Subaru diff with LSD

It will smoke the rear tyres! - I have ordered some super sticky only just road legal tyres for next year

I normally drive it at 45% power - 100% is a bit too exciting

That is really impressive! I now have to read your build thread again from start to finish

My super Seven had a Curb weight of about 500kg and 200hk/250N. I can only imagine how it would be with almost twice the Power

 

[24Seven]

Hi, I know this is an old thread, but was just wondering if you got anywhere with the coupe? I am really keen to convert one, but am just at initial planning stages
Regards, Matt

Hi Matt,

This project is still active, but progress is slow. Since last time I posted here I've done alot more research, spoken with SFRO (the local inspection/registration agency for altered vehicles), built an electric Cafe racer motorbike and cleaned the garage

As of now my recipe looks like this:

• Tesla front motor
• Aftermarket control board for Tesla inverter
• 350-400V, 20-30kWh, 600A+ battery
• Steering column with electric servo
• Electric water pump
• Electric vacum pump for the brakes
• .....

Most of the components are relatively easy to get hold of here in Sweden, apart from the battery. The Kia Soul EV battery would be a good match, but seems really hard to find.

I don't really want to raise the weight of the car, hence going for low weight/short range.

Would really appreciate suggestions on other batteries that might be a good fit for what I'm doing.

 

[24Seven]

Hi there,
Thanks for the update!

You have a lovely looking coupe - looks like a 'LE' - much too nice to scrap as suggested above!!
I am stalling at the moment as I am not sure the car I have in mind is in good enough condition to start on without loads of work
Once I've resolved this, I was planning on looking into Tesla front motors as some say they will not fit, but if they do, I feel they would be perfect level of performance vs the original car...

Thanks! yes it is an LE. It has been garage kept most of its life so it is 99% rust free. Sorry to hear about the condition of your Coupe, but it might be for the better. I am hesitant to put the angle grinder and welder to the original metal of my car, allthough this would make it much easier to get parts to fit good. In your case maby this is not an issue and you could make batteries etc. fit perfect by cutting and altering your coupe.

I have not yet meassured the engine bay but was almost certain that the Tesla front motor would just drop in, Have you heard of any specific reason to why it would not fit? Is it the centered gearcase/diff that would hit the steering pherhaps?

 

[24Seven]

Why the front motor, rather than the small rear motor? Does it provide better clearance for the tires when steering, or is the motor intended to sit over the steering rack? The small front and rear units have the same motor and gearing, but are just packaged differently, and the rear unit places the motor lower (handy for lower centre of mass and more room above it).

Hi Brian,

Really good feedback, and the answer is: I'm not really shure anymore...

The initial reson for choosing the front motor was to have better clearence for the steering rack keeping the drive shafts level. I have relized now though that this might not be necessery as my car is lowered about 40mm and the drive shafts are pointing slightly upwards as it sits.

The other reason for choosing the front drive unit was that I liked the OEM mounts better on that one compared to the small rear motor.

I will need to mount some of the batteries in the engine bay so It would be nice with a lower drive unit to keep the CG as low as possible in the car.

Rear drive unit is looking better and better, just need to get the ICE motor out and take some meassurements.


Thank's!

 

[24Seven]

Most current EVs have a much larger battery, and cannot be readily configured to half size while maintaining voltage. Plug-in hybrids generally have half of that battery capacity and it is awkward to combine two of them while maintaining the same pack voltage.

The other obvious battery of the desired size is from the Nissan Leaf.

There are other current or recent EVs which are adapted from gas engine models, and have battery capacity at about the target:

• Volkswagen eGolf
• Ford Focus Electric
• Fiat 500e
• Chevrolet Spark EV (on the small side; came in two entirely different types in the same package size)

What is available locally depends more on the manufacturer's marketing strategy than any technical factor.

If you really like Tesla bits, you could also risk internally converting Model S/X modules to 12S (from the stock 6S configuration) and using six or seven of them in series for roughly the desired combination of pack voltage and capacity.

Again, excellent suggestions Brian, thank's!

I have tried doing some quick research but it is often hard to find battery specs on newer cars. If the e-Golf or Focus has voltage and amps the might be good donor candidates as they are available in our market.

The problem is usually that the smaller battery packs don't deliver enough of a punch (amps), although they might have close to optimal voltage. That seems to be the case for the Leaf, and might also be true for the Tesla modules if you make them 12S.

Ideally I would like to be able to make around 200kW peak, that would mean 500A @400V. From what I've found tesla modules are rated at about 750A peak, which I guess would be divided in two when changing to a 12S configuration? If not this would be the perfect solution.

Regards
Martin

 

[24Seven]

So the car is now on jack stands and I have started the process of removing the Engine/gearbox/Intercooler..... It is really squeezed in there and will unfortunately not be easy to remove.

Also found a Kia Soul EV battery locally, so that part is finally solved.

 

[24Seven]

Tried documenting the Project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ2qaf_isfs

 

[24Seven]

Nice one !

Thank's!

 

[24Seven]

Here is part two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TKckYPrPg

 

[24Seven]

The ICE is almost out and I begin to see the space availiable for the tesla motor.

There does not seem to be enough room to mount the Tesla front drive unit at the same angle as it is mounted originally.

Would it be ok to tilt the drive unit forward without creating lubrication or cooling issues?

 

[24Seven]

Thank's Brian!

Might be easier to mod the firewall then.

I guess turning the drive unit 180 degrees and drive the motor in reverse direction is not a good idea either?